netsaintplug-devel Mailing List for Netsaint Plugin Development (Page 57)

On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 03:30:01PM -0500, Karl DeBisschop wrote:
> I sort of feel that the modularity of the plugins and separation of
> the plugins from the server is one of the best features of Ethan's
> architecture, so I'm not that anxious to erode that by implying a
> connection that currently isn't there.
> 
> Another way of phrasing my earlier note might in fact be to say that I
> think it's unfortunate that the hosts.cfg file has suggested a link
> between netsaint version and plugin version, where in fact I believe
> there is none.

	Yeah, but at the end of the day, Netsaint is just a really neat
state machine without any plug-ins to go with it. ;P

	The plug-ins are definetly separate from Netsaint-proper, and should
be.  It will make things much easier from a development standpoint,
and certainly from a distribuiton standpoint.

	For sheer ease of use, though, we should provide an updated
version of the default config file with the distribution of the
plug-ins.  That will help solve problems like the mysterious
failed host ping checks if you modify the default config that comes
with Netsaint 0.0.4.

	The possibility certainly exists for Ethan to modify the way
plug-ins interact with Netsaint; granted the current system seems to
work pretty well, but you never know.  In that case, having the 
version number of the plug-in's match the current version of Netsaint
(with a sub-version number for minor revisions) will make life
much, much easier.

	If we keep the version numbering separate, though, it may be a 
good idea to keep a "default" hosts.cfg file in the plug-in distro,
with sample command entries for each plug-in. (And a README for how
to use them)

				Adam

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Jacob - Cyber Trails                    Phone - (602)906-1752
Sr. Systems Administrator                    Pager - (602)447-9531
ad...@cy...                         Fax   - (602)907-1799
        * Evil Lord of the Sysadmin Sith Darth Rmdashrf *
------------------------------------------------------------------

> Here's an idea.  Why not have the sample hosts.cfg come with the
> netsaint plugins, or perhaps an updated one?

You can't do that because most of hosts.cfg IS dependent on netsaint
syntax.  Hence my original suggestion of packaging a services.cfg with
the plugins that is included by reference from the hosts.cfg that is
distributed with netsaint itself.

As I said, the drawback is that there might be a few new macros
introduced at some point, so there is a slight syntactic dependence on
the netsaint daemon, but much less than on the plugins thmselves, I
think.


--
karl

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Karl DeBisschop wrote:

> Another way of phrasing my earlier note might in fact be to say that I
> think it's unfortunate that the hosts.cfg file has suggested a link
> between netsaint version and plugin version, where in fact I believe
> there is none.

Here's an idea.  Why not have the sample hosts.cfg come with the
netsaint plugins, or perhaps an updated one?

Nicholas

======================================================================
Nicholas Tang     Senior System Administrator     R/GA Digital Studios
nt...@rg...       (212) 946-4224 (voice)        (212) 946-4010 (fax)
======================================================================

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Good point too..  :(


So???   somebody else??


On 14-Dec-1999 Karl DeBisschop wrote:
> From: Karl DeBisschop <kde...@al...>
> 
> 
>>      Why not make the plugin version the same as the version of
>>Netsaint it was developed for, with a minor revision for updates?
>>
>>      Something like:
>>
>>      0.0.4-1
> 
> The plugins have previously been (and I think should probably continue
> to be) independent of the version of netsaint that you are running.
> The specs for how a plugin interfaces to netsaint have not changed
> since at least version 0.0.2p1, and probably have never changed.
> 
> I sort of feel that the modularity of the plugins and separation of
> the plugins from the server is one of the best features of Ethan's
> architecture, so I'm not that anxious to erode that by implying a
> connection that currently isn't there.
> 
> Another way of phrasing my earlier note might in fact be to say that I
> think it's unfortunate that the hosts.cfg file has suggested a link
> between netsaint version and plugin version, where in fact I believe
> there is none.
> 
> Just my $0.02, I'm willing to entertain thoughts along the lines you
> suggested, but I'm not seeing great promise in the idea right now.
> 
> regards,
> karl
> 
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Controls Process Support                |  innovations that would truly 
Electronics Integration and Software    |  benefit consumers never occur 
GM Powertrain                           |  for the sole reason that they
Brighton, MI                            |  do not coincide with Microsoft's 
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>	Why not make the plugin version the same as the version of
>Netsaint it was developed for, with a minor revision for updates?
>
>	Something like:
>
>	0.0.4-1

The plugins have previously been (and I think should probably continue
to be) independent of the version of netsaint that you are running.
The specs for how a plugin interfaces to netsaint have not changed
since at least version 0.0.2p1, and probably have never changed.

I sort of feel that the modularity of the plugins and separation of
the plugins from the server is one of the best features of Ethan's
architecture, so I'm not that anxious to erode that by implying a
connection that currently isn't there.

Another way of phrasing my earlier note might in fact be to say that I
think it's unfortunate that the hosts.cfg file has suggested a link
between netsaint version and plugin version, where in fact I believe
there is none.

Just my $0.02, I'm willing to entertain thoughts along the lines you
suggested, but I'm not seeing great promise in the idea right now.

regards,
karl

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>       Why not make the plugin version the same as the version of
> Netsaint it was developed for, with a minor revision for updates?
> 
>       Something like:
> 
>       0.0.4-1

Sounds good to me.




- --
Hugo Gayosso                            |  The ultimate result is that some  
Controls Process Support                |  innovations that would truly 
Electronics Integration and Software    |  benefit consumers never occur 
GM Powertrain                           |  for the sole reason that they
Brighton, MI                            |  do not coincide with Microsoft's 
USA                                     |  self-interest.
                                        |      
E-Mail: qz...@po...    |            Thomas Penfield Jackson
 Phone: (810) 220-2635                  |              U.S. District Judge
   Fax: (810) 220-2663                  |



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On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 03:02:39PM -0500, Karl DeBisschop wrote:
> Then each plugin distribution could come with a services.cfg file that
> matched the sysntax of the current plugins.  Problem is that the
> sysntax does depend a little of what base version of netsaint (what
> macros are available, primarily).
> 
> So I'm not sure that there's a perfect way of distributing the service
> definitions, but I think there may be a better one.

	Why not make the plugin version the same as the version of
Netsaint it was developed for, with a minor revision for updates?

	Something like:

	0.0.4-1

	Just a thought.. (should have RPMs today or tommorow of the 
current CVS plug-in code..)

			Adam

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Jacob - Cyber Trails                    Phone - (602)906-1752
Sr. Systems Administrator                    Pager - (602)447-9531
ad...@cy...                         Fax   - (602)907-1799
        * Evil Lord of the Sysadmin Sith Darth Rmdashrf *
------------------------------------------------------------------

> Yep, I added the '-p' to all the definitions where check_ping was used and it
> seemed to solve the problem.
>
> I guess that this should be fixed in netsaint, not in the plugins.

Actually, I'm not sure it's that easy.  I'm thinking more that each
netsaint distribution would come with the service definitions included
by reference, rather than actually in the hosts.cfg file as is
currently done.  This is because the service definition syntax is only
slightly dependent on netsaint syntax.

Then each plugin distribution could come with a services.cfg file that
matched the sysntax of the current plugins.  Problem is that the
sysntax does depend a little of what base version of netsaint (what
macros are available, primarily).

So I'm not sure that there's a perfect way of distributing the service
definitions, but I think there may be a better one.

---

karl

> Please consider subscribing to the netsaintplug-devel and
> netsaintplug-help mailing lists and lists.sourceforge.com. 

should have been "lists.sourceforge.net" - sorry.

Karl

>   From: Kitt <kit...@co...>
>
>   I sent this message in a few weeks ago to the 'net...@li...' 
>   address and didn't hear anything back. It's a quick fix to the 
>   plugins distribution that makes it successfully compile on FreeBSD. I 
>   couldn't find anything in the (horrible to search) mailing list 
>   archives, so here it is - hopefully it can be added to the next 
>   plugins release. I hope I'm not reprinting something that has been 
>   gone over many, many times before....
>
>   -Kitt
>
>   >The NetSaint plugins v1.2.7 (the latest ones on the site dated 
>   >11/9/99) will not compile correctly on FreeBSD 2.x or 3.x.
>   >
>   >
>   >This is the error:
>   >
>   >su-2.03$ make all
>   >gcc -g -O2 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -c ./plugins/popen.c
>   >In file included from ./plugins/popen.c:26:
>   >/usr/include/sys/resource.h:58: field `ru_utime' has incomplete type
>   >/usr/include/sys/resource.h:59: field `ru_stime' has incomplete type
>   >*** Error code 1
>   >
>   >Stop.
>   >
>   >
>   >It is fixed by editing ./plugins/popen.c and adding:
>   >	#include <sys/time.h>
>   >
>   >at line 26 above "#include <sys/resource.h>". Now make will complete 
>   >with no errors (tested on FreeBSD 3.3).
>   >
>   >
>   >Here's a diff:
>   >
>   >*** plugins/popen.c     Sat Dec  4 14:14:22 1999
>   >--- plugins/popen.c.new Sat Dec  4 14:14:06 1999
>   >***************
>   >*** 23,28 ****
>   >--- 23,29 ----
>   >  #include <string.h>           /* for convenience */
>   >  #include <limits.h>
>   >  #include <stdarg.h>           /* ANSI C header file */
>   >+ #include <sys/time.h>
>   >  #include <sys/resource.h>
>   >  #include "../common/common.h"

I saw a similar post on the users group, I think.  I tried to fix that
in my distribution tree at that time, and the resulting changes were
part of the code base imported into the current CVS release on
sourceforge.  But it was tied up with a few other issues, so I did not
take exactly your approach.

If you or anyone else would try the current CVS tree on BSD and let me
know whether or not I got it right, I'd be much appreciative.
Meanwhile, I'll list it as a bug to be resolved, and hopefully we can
close off the bug if one or more FreeBSD users can confirm that the
current code works.

regards,
Karl

The idea of releasing sub-versions of the plug-in's is a great idea.
:)  Especially untill Ethan is in a state where he can activley
(sp) develop again.

FWIW, I think there should be one supreme dictator (albiet a 
benevolent one) who decides when the source is stable enough
for a "release".  If we want to release snapshots and so-forth
in between to stamp out bugs, by all means.

Someone suggested a linux-kernel type scheme, where odd numbered
releases are unstable... that is certainly not a bad idea, but
how would that work with the current versioning scheme?

In the mean time, I'm going to build an RPM of the current source
in CVS... I'll let the list know when that RPM is finished.

			Adam

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Jacob - Cyber Trails                    Phone - (602)906-1752
Sr. Systems Administrator                    Pager - (602)447-9531
ad...@cy...                         Fax   - (602)907-1799
        * Evil Lord of the Sysadmin Sith Darth Rmdashrf *
------------------------------------------------------------------

>   From: ad...@cy...
>
>   On Fri, Dec 10, 1999 at 02:42:40PM -0500, Karl DeBisschop wrote:
>   > Just to be sure I get the idea - basically if you submit one patch and
>   > I like it, then I make the policy descision to let you submit as many
>   > changes as you want?
>   > 
>   > Hmmm.  Well, I dunno.
>   > 
>   > That's one way I suppose.
>
>	   I meant it more along the lines of:
>
>	   "Submit us patches untill we are sure your a competent enough
>   member of the development community that we trust you enough to
>   give you CVS access"
>
>	   Does that make more sense?

Yup.

Note that I only CC'd netsaint - futher discussion on this topic
should probably take place on sourceforge:

	net...@so...

I guess the only other thing would be to define 'we' in "submit us
patches until we are sure...".  But I guess we can define that as we
go.

I course, I'm not even sure I always pass that criterion ;-).

-- 
Karl DeBisschop <kde...@al...>
617.832.0332 (Fax: 617.956.2696)

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Netsaint Plugins Development
http://netsaintplug.sourceforge.net

I found out how to modify it and add files.

The URL is:

	http://netsaintplug.sourceforge.net/

But you knew that.  Anyone have thoughts on a design?  Anyone want to
do it?

For the time being I may just steal Ethan's downloads page, at least
until someone has a chance to make some content.

Karl

To all plugin developers, welcome.

We've just started using sourceforge to help us make plugin develpment
as easy and fun as possible.  And hopefully build a strong community
around these tools.

If there's anything that should be done to meet that goal, let the
moderator know (currently me at kar...@us...).

All I ask is a little patience while I learn my way around sourceforge.

-- 
Karl DeBisschop 

Netsaint Plugins Development
http://netsaintplug.sourceforge.net