The Twelve Dancing Princesses by Brothers Grimm (art by Ruth Sanderson)
I humbly present my magnum opus, Gregory Peck 10 out of 10
I humbly present my magnum opus, Gregory Peck 10 out of 10
Happy Gregory Peck grednesday to all who celebrate @hotvintagepoll
Previous poll remade because I forgot a whole century the first time, this is what I get for doing this on mobile LOL
Think of the oldest song that you know by heart — can sing the melody and any words it has from memory, without looking it up. Search the name of it in Wikipedia, looking for when it was first documented with both the melody and (if applicable) lyrics you know, together. When is it ACTUALLY from? (If it’s way newer than you think, you can’t switch to an older song. Answer based on this one you initially THOUGHT was the oldest.)
20th century (1900s) or later
19th century (1800s)
18th century (1700s)
17th century (1600s)
15th-16th centuries (1400s-1500s)
13th-14th centuries (1200s-1300s)
11th-12th centuries (1000s-1100s)
First millennium CE (if you are not a musician, no you don't, go back)
It's the Seikilos Epitaph (circa 1st century CE), oldest complete melody found
See ResultsI am a music historian with a PhD and the point of this poll is that the vast majority of people don’t actually know much music from pre-1500s or so, and most music that people think is ancient or medieval is actually far more recent.
There are no options before the first millennium CE because the Epitaph of Seikilos is the oldest complete work of music found anywhere in the world, and it's around 2000 years old. If you think you know something older than that, either only the text was written down (e.g. Biblical, Vedic and Greco-Roman hymns) or it only exists in fragments (e.g. the Hurrian hymns and Orestes stasimon). Which is to say, it does not count for this.
If it fits into a few of these potential time frames, pick the one that's considered the most likely. If historians genuinely have no fucking clue, THEN you can go back and try with another really old song.
This fact about the oldest known music doesn't seem true in that there are surely many Australian indigenous music traditions older than 2000 years old, or at the very least that we can't pin down the age of but are likely that old.
Yes, of course, music historians are well aware that there are oral musical traditions that date much older than that; I mentioned several of them in the rest of the post, even! No one thinks that there were no complete melodies written before Epitaph of Seikilos. It is the oldest one that archaeologists have found in its complete form.
It's a moot point because any melodies that people know in the 21st century are ones that would have been written down or recorded at some point. Oral traditions were oral traditions because they were expected to be carried over a few generations, and as anyone who has played Telephone knows, usually change somewhat in each recitation. You aren't singing any melodies that old that have never been written down at any point.
Australian indigenous musicians aren't, either. Indigenous musical traditions change over time like every other musical tradition; the idea that they would exist unchanged over millennia is a colonialist myth (that is based in the idea that those cultures are primitive and only sophisticated cultures change and develop). I was not just thinking of Western European music regarding the point of "most music people think is older than it actually is."
you've heard of death of the author, now get ready for death of the audience: where instead of basing your reaction on a thousand uninformed opinions online, you actually read the text and engage with it
girl help there's people on this post who can't actually read my text
#the way that this is literally how death of the author works lmao
OKAY i'm fucking sick of people who can't read leaving these comments so here we go, we're gonna read Barthes together. hold my hand
Barthes' 1967 essay The Death of the Author (La mort de l'auteur) loosely takes the form of a literary history: he relates the changing attitudes of criticism towards the text and of literature towards criticism down to his day. He is interested in what writing is, and thus, what a book is: "a tissue of signs," which the critic claims to be able to interpret. But Barthes argues that once the necessity of connecting the author to the book is removed, the critic has no work to do: "Once the Author is gone, the claim to 'decipher' a text becomes quite useless." This is a rejection of both the supremacy of the critic and the intentions of the author.
When Barthes says "critic," he doesn't "anyone who has encountered the text," however. He differentiates the critic from the "reader":
the reader is the very space in which are inscribed, without any being lost, all the citations a writing consists of; the unity of a text is not in its origin, it is in its destination.
For Barthes, the reader's understanding of the text is supreme because it weaves together the "tissue of signs" into a coherent whole, producing a singular interpretation. He concludes by advocating for the overthrow of the critical establishment in favor of individual interpretation: "to restore to writing its future, we must reverse its myth: the birth of the reader must be ransomed by the death of the Author." In other words, in order for us to allow readers their own experiences, we must stop prioritizing the critic -- not the reader, but the critic -- and instead allow the reader to engage the text.
We're gonna un-Barthes Barthes now, okay? Stay with me. Here's the context:
Barthes was responding to a stifling and rigid environment in which criticism was the sole province of the academic expert. As part of the deconstructionist wave, he wanted to upend the traditional hierarchy that dictated how a text should be understood and what it was for, instead prioritizing language and reaction.
He got his wish. We live in a world of reaction.
Gone is the tyranny of the formal critic; gone even is the formal literary education of the reader. Our "tissue of signs" is no longer the text, but an infinite mirrored hall of reactions to reactions to reactions in which the text diminishes into a vanishing point, as the Author once did on Barthes' literary stage.
We do not need to resist the tyranny of the academy. The academy has been destroyed. Adjunctification, the widespread corporatization of universities, the resulting devaluation of college degrees, the devastation of humanities departments in widespread shutdowns, and now the revocation of billions of dollars of government funding have left the academy on its knees. Public trust in academic expertise has declined so sharply that people on this very hellsite will tell you that if someone has an advanced degree in a specific field, that actually makes them less trustworthy.
And in Ozymandias' place, we have the reader.
The reader consumes a variety of "content" and regurgitates its reactions in a variety of "posts." It transmutes text into more text which further readers wriggle eagerly through, refining what might have had meaning into a rarefied fertilizer of emotion and echo. What it leaves behind becomes the literary history for new strata of reactions, nostalgia, and imitation.
This is the audience: an ouroboros of interpretation, a rat king of readership. It has no end but itself. Ultimately, it needs no text to function. In this world, the truly radical act is to disentangle yourself from the other worms and rebuild the edifice of meaning. This may require you to do such tasks as "read the actual book," but because we no longer have the support -- however oppressive -- of literary criticism to inform our reading, we must also learn how to read, explore the historical context on our own, and recover both the facts and the symbols from which the text is woven.
That is what death of the audience means: not a rejection of the critic in favor of language, but a rejection of endless language and infinite readers in favor of fact, history, and skill.
It's a pun, by the way: "La mort de l'auteur," spoken aloud, recalls Le Morte d'Arthur, a 15th-century collection of Arthurian legend which marked the turn away from the Middle Ages and into a nostalgic Early Modern period which valorized them. The Author becomes the mythic King; as myth, he can be severed from fact and dismissed.
Fact has now itself become the myth.
Fucking read.