every time I think about this I want to jump off a cliff

so like what if noelle accidentally follows kris and susie to the dark world like….???

first time in the dark world.

Had an idea like, five years ago for an RPG series that's honestly a standard-fare game until the sequels, but that would require a lot of setup and a dedicated fanbase that grows with the game series to truly shine (if done right).

Edit: Honestly, it looks like Deltarune might be going in a similar direction I imagined for this game in general progression of the tone, theme, and message.

This is long, so I apologize:

Deltarune theory that I need people to think about for a moment.

Monsters don't bleed.

You can probably figure out where this is going yourself, but if you want to hear my thoughts and evidence, it's all going under the cut.

Something i've been thinking of after chapters 3 and 4 is that we never really got a resolution or follow up for the Newest Girl story from the spamton sweepstakes?

Not like we like Absolutely needed one, obviously I don't think there's any flaw here or anything, but in the context of how much we know Kris loves Susie, this story feels really important because it shows how absolutely TERRIBLE she was to them for seemingly a WHILE before the story started... And also that Kris just???? Didn't???? Give a single shit at all 😭😭??????????????

I just think about this so often. Like maybe Kris just has nerves of fucking steel idk, but with how horrible Susie was to them (and how Noelle notes earlier that they never told Toriel about the bullying, either) i find it hard to believe that Anybody wouldn't end up being upset by what susie does.

Were they just hiding their upset really well, or—in my opinion—did they just have such little value in themself already that they couldn't possibly make themself care?

We also still don't know why Susie targeted Kris so heavily for her bullying. Of course you could say it's because of Toriel and how she comforted Susie in the past (how she showed her a kindness she'd probably scarcely ever seen) but. IDK Maybe i'm just super wrong but i still don't feel 100% sure that that's the ONLY reason.

And craziest part of all the horrible things Susie was saying to Kris on a daily basis: Literally in chapter one, the SAME day Susie did a couple nice things for them the First Time ever, They become world's number one #ShieldForSusie. Like I get it. I so get it. But like. Why. She was literally saying "someone's gonna make you disappear" like A couple days ago 😭😭

Also: best for last: We still don't know what the fuck kris said in that story. Whatever extremely brief thing they said that made Susie literally run away from the situation.

What was this. What was all this about. What. What was this. And i just think about that. Does anybody else think

Sometimes I think back on when chapter 2 came out and there were people saying that Susie’s turnaround from ch1 to how she is in ch2 was too sudden and jarring. Hell, even back in ch1 people were saying that Susie’s character development happened too quickly.

then Spamton sweepstakes happened and so did the newest girl post, which I really think was partially meant to serve as a reminder to people entering the fandom with ch2 that this is how she used to be.

Not to mention the aftermath of the Lancer fight, with how quickly she went from seemingly wanting to tear Lancers fucking throat out to immediately wanting to reconcile with him and affirming their friendship. (which. the whole thing WAS a huge misunderstanding. but still)

besties I think this is just how she is. She’s a good person and great friend but she’s also a little bit emotionally unstable! And I love her for that!!

the_n3w3st_g1rl_g1rl page from the spamton sweepstakes is one of my favorite pieces of deltarune media it's chefs kiss muah

sucha gooduh meata boll

First of all, I might be biased, but since this "post" is called "The newest girl", and Susie seems to really hate Kris in particular, I feel like this is great proof for the "Susie was from a human community" theory. Because she seems to really dislike Kris - who is the only human in the city - for no particular reason.

Also Susie never bullying Noelle because she was the only person who was ever nice to Susie... I love them so much.

Well, even if Kris cared about it they wouldn't be able to do anything because.... Yeah. But considering later additions to this it doesn't seem like Kris ever hated Susie? The thought of "wasting no opportunity to expell her from school" is something they never thought of, and they seemed to get the worst of it. Who knows, Kris is weird snsjsjs.

We know that Susie being "mean" is more of a persona she puts up since no one is nice to her, so it's really hard to read her true intentions here but I mean if I were to assume.. Susie has very bad eating habits, and it seems like she's trying to warn Kris here but she's not being nice about it.

.. And she made Kris laugh! They maybe thought it was a joke, or maybe it's just their weird sense of humor but it seems like they really vibed with Susie's whole thing, because they are both literally the same level of chaos. They seemed to like her while she hated their guts.

Susie clearly misinterprets Kris' reaction and throws the apple at them and we can see Kris being a true gamer and also a weird little shit kRIS DON'T EAT THE APPLE WHAT ARE YOU DOING--

And then Susie makes an oopsie. Listen, I know Susie and Kris are THE bestest of friends now, and it's very clear that they like each other a lot, and can never be separated, but I really hope they talk it out about everything she said.

Because that clearly hit Kris really hard. While Kris sure has uh, a lot of other worse things to worry about now, I'm sure they would still remember this no? They really need to talk everything out I think :(. Perhaps in the diner scene in ch4 haha hello please Toby?

(Also maybe Susie was projecting a bit when she said that? It's very unclear if she has parents soo, it would make sense) .

This part is very interesting. Because if Kris really did say something, there's no way that what they said was a threat. If a threat scared Susie that much, I doubt that she would completely brush it off and start bullying them again in the future. But what else could have they said to make Susie run away like that?

Well, we do know Kris is going through a lot, so I imagine they probably had a pretty bad reaction that wouldn't be a threat, but it would make Susie leave, out of shock perhaps?

So what I think Kris would have said (if they said anything at all, and it wasn't just their expression) , would be some short but very self-deprecating sentence like: "Yeah. She would". And that, together with whatever face they were making, would be enough to push Susie away I think. Anyway those are my 2 cents to this.

Also Noelle hid inside the locker lmao, and Kris knew she was there all the time and just slowly shut the door on her again. They're so weird I love them so much.

reading the new noelle blog entry about susie and kris. messy teenagers, susie's origins, and barely canon-adhering speculations ahead

potential proof for both the "susie is new in town, specifically moved in from human-dominated town/a community that puts humankind as default (as opposed to monsterkind)" theory and the "kris isn't on their first reset" theory. these two theories aren't even contradictory, so they may still both be true.

it's kind of obvious susie is often, if not always, projecting when she "bullies" someone. she's always overcompensating for something. first half of chapter one was blatant about this: fighting and whack-a-mole'ing her way through the dark world because that's the only way she knows how to survive, immediately seizing to threatening lancer when she feels even the potential of a threat because she has to get the first word in or else someone's just going to get her first. (which is then disproved when lancer shows that he's not willing to hurt her)

anyway, her projection in the blog entry.

surely i'm not the only one who finds her line super corny in this. i love susie so much. she genuinely is all bark and no bite. can't even blame kris for laughing

of course, after that susie feels threatened and lobs an apple at kris, who just keeps escalating the situation because they're a little shit like that, and then we get into noelle "my response to a fight or flight situation is to freeze, always" holiday.

i'm not trying to start shit or invalidate other people's feelings about this scene (which can be really personal, i understand), but it's not like noelle isn't trying to do anything. she opened this entry wishing kris would just swap seats with her already. she even told kris about that (because kris is the only person other than her dad that noelle feels she can say no to), but they didn't want to move. she also wished they would just tell toriel already. she ended the entry saying she'd get some apple shampoo to distract susie from kris. which, yeah, obviously it isn't without her own selfish interest, but it's not like she was doing it *just* to get susie to notice her instead.

noelle just always freezes in stressful situations. that's why snowgrave was horrifying.

with that being said, on what susie's saying to kris: in line with what she said at the beginning of chapter 1, "such a shame to make her bury her child" etc. my personal reading on this - might not be coherent, thematically, but i don't think susie necessarily knows enough about toriel to know whether she'd be sick of kris if they stayed around for too long. susie, who didn't even know kris has a brother prior to chapter 2. of course, not discounting the possibility that there might be aspects of the dreemurr family dynamic that susie is privy to and other aspects that she isn't aware of, but.. it genuinely just feels like she's projecting again. especially with how kris is responding:

i won't put it past kris to have said something mean (or meaner) in retaliation. for kris, to whom the whole being unwanted by their mother thing is plain weird as far as insults go ("you think my mom won't want me around? my mom, who checked out library books multiple times just to take care of a freak like me? my mom, who drives me to school and holds my hand because my brother who used to do it for me is now away for college? my mom, who lets me get away with eating whole pies and stealing her chocolate every time? are we sure we're talking about my mom and not yours?"), the bullying probably doesn't take because it literally makes no sense. it's not impossible they caught on quickly to the fact that susie's projecting - she's not subtle about this - and turned that on her instead.

i'm not saying that kris is a mean or aggressive person - they aren't - but they are capable of being sarcastic and being a little shit. like mocking berdly for his supreme intelligence during his normal route battle (even though the insults also didn't take because berdly thought kris was being genuine. i think kris knows berdly thinks they're being genuine, lol, which is why they feel safe to continue being a little shit toward him, knowing they won't hurt him).

ANYWAY. now that i'm done with that, time to be nonsensical about lore

anyway, just as a closing note - i'm not super attached to the nonsensical lore readings; they're kinda wobbly. but i'm fairly ok with how i'm reading the susie-noelle-kris interaction.

i'm seeing like a large amount of noelle hate after the_n3w3st_g1rl_g1rl and it's really making me sad. people are calling her a horrible person for not intervening and for having a crush on susie which. ok yeah i have no idea why she has a crush on susie but come on, she literally states that she wanted to intervene but she just froze. and people are like "she was willing to let her childhood friend get KILLED because of a crush" like in the post she explicitly states that she wanted to stop her but was paralyzed. can you fucking blame her? what the hell would you do if you were in that situation? "I'd" no you fucking wouldn't you'd sit there like you're watching a car accident unfold.

me seeing a gender I like: 😊

the gender specifically uses agab language and assumes afab = transmasc and amab = transfem:

isn't it crazy how the first time noelle entered a dark world, she was immediately met with an older female figure dressed primarily in blue, who literally trapped her out of a misguided sense of protectiveness and a belief that she always knew what was "best" for noelle

and how when kris created a dark world in their own home, they were immediately met with an older male figure who's loud and boisterous and keeps reminding them of the worst moments of their childhood, doesn't understand their boundaries or interests anymore, and is stuck in the past

and isn't it crazy how both of those darkners eventually saw the error in their ways, saw that they were hurting the children they loved so much, and decided to be better?

which could mean nothing at all, of course.

really don't get why the "new girl" deltarune story is so controversial when it is just. a depiction of a regular occurrence, a rougher interaction between characters who we had already seen experience friction in the chapters that are released.

yes, susie ends up being very loyal to and protective of kris. -after- she had spent an unknown amount of time making threats of physical violence and calling them a freak.

kids can be mean! are people wanting to downplay it because it is uncomfortable to acknowledge it?

while my experiences aren't universal, i was bullied really badly as a kid. pinned on a brick wall, punched, slurs thrown. i remember getting fed up with a boy who'd hit me, asking, "What did I ever do to you?" and something must have clicked because he stopped. completely.

in the next few weeks he apologized. asked to know who all was messing with me, started looking out for me. it didn't erase the past cruelty, but he did become a friend. it's not the ideal, or nicest way to establish a friendship, but it was one of mine and one of several where people who became near and dear to me started with "i used to think you were insufferable" and became them protectively holding me like a weird beloved cat.

so, seeing deltarune explore that, the rougher edges and more complex aspects of people -deciding- to be friends, is neat. and makes the story realer to me.

Almost everything that happened in the New Girl entry happened in Chapter 1, too.

Here are some parallels...and some ways they've grown since then.

Susie's anger is brought out because Kris won't say a word to her.

In the same way, Susie explodes in the New Girl entry because Kris won't say anything to her, no matter how much she goads them.

while i get folks having mixed feelings on the noelle page talking about seeing susie bully kris, i do feel it is really in character for susie and kris to have had really troubling interactions in the past. like, she -did- try to bully kris, she -did- threaten them with physical violence on many occasions which, in chapter one, we see with her actually slamming kris into a locker.

while susie never escalates to the kind of violence she threatens to use, doesn't actually bite kris' face off or go out of her way to throw punches, her saying really horrible stuff like "maybe if you disappeared your mom would realize how much better her life is" does follow her pattern of saying really harsh things before backpedaling.

and that conflict is actually neat to see. kris seemingly shrugging it off, ignoring the threats and being way too ready to deflect an apple chucked at their head, is in line with their pattern of being concerningly detached from people. (it also hints at kris being so comfortable with susie's outbursts possibly from having experienced them before, able to know the apple was going to be thrown, and already somehow aware of how good a friend susie can potentially be. maybe... from a past reset...)

noelle being awkward and trying to laugh off the encounter also makes sense to me. 1) kris has potentially been picked on for all sorts of things (bratty!) so susie's behavior isn't New 2) noelle is an anxious and awkward person who doesn't know what to do especially when it seems like her childhood friend doesn't care about what just happened to them.

the kids are not alright but they have the spirit to wanna try to be.