General Discussion

I got into metal pretty recently - mostly classics like Iron Maiden or Metallica, and a few less mainstream (from the outside perspective) bands. I noticed that in a lot of online metal spaces, nu metal is not considered metal which... confuses me so much?? Like it has "metal" in the name-

Is it just a cultural thing? Or is it more like the punk/rock divide, where one is musically different from the other once you listen in?

Normally I would ask reddit about this, but looking over r/metal I think I would get crucified-

Please don't start a flame war in the replies-

@GojiShade13

Not an expert on genres, but I think it might have two main factors.

One, a genre is not necessarily one thing. People love putting things in categories (and categories within categories), but the truth is that not everything will fit neatly.
I get not considering Nu Metal typical metal, as it kinda does its own thing, but what actually is typical metal, and which subgenre doesn't do its own thing? It's not even just this one, I've seen various subgenres not considered 'true' metal by some people. As soon as someone's trying to classify art, there will be debates.

Two, tribalism, plain and simple. The "You like something I don't like, so you're against me and also I'm better than you"-mindset. Gatekeepers will always exist. And, while most of the metal people are chill, the gatekeepers are frequently really, really passionate about their beliefs.

Ultimately, what you consider it will be kinda subjective, but regardless on whether or not you like Nu Metal, I welcome you to the ranks of metal enthusiasts.

as someone who loves metal but also enjoys other types of music, i think most online metalhead spaces (at least the big ones) tend to cater towards the pretentious, gatekeep-y types anyways :'D i think nu metal is plenty metal enough! call yourself whatever you most identify with, and if somebody tries to start something over it tell them to mind their own business.

also seconding that i enjoy pop music as well as metal; chappell roan is definitely gonna be on my spotify wrapped this year lmaoooo

Honestly, the lines can get so blurred when you get down into the details. My dad is notorious for telling me that "that band isn't technically metal".

Every person has different definitions of metal and there isn't one "true" metal. I love Anathema and Porcupine Tree, when I describe it to others, I say metal because it's a good reference point. Heck, I've even had people tell me Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath aren't metal and yet they're considered staples of the genre.

Basically, call genres whatever you want, music is about having fun and enjoying yourself.

Dunno what your other musical interests are, but I will say that metal can be a really good jumping off point to get into classical. If that gives you an idea of how closely related all music is

Weird. I am pretty sure they are the same thing
I like death metal and nu metal and post grunge and techy metal like the browning

Prejudice, ultimately. Metalcore gets the same thing, which fuses with the entire concept of emo-bashing being fundamentally homophobic. If you look at the genres that metalheads don't consider "real metal", and look at metal subgenres that have larger than typical non-white male fanbases, there's substantial overlap. This is not a coincidence. This is also why I refuse to give any kind of gatekeeping the time of day.

I'm a big fan of symphonic metal, which gets a lot of the same "not real metal!"-type rhetoric. Partly gatekeeping/elitism/pretentious nonsense, and partly because symphonic metal has a lot more women in it than most other subgenres.

I also think numetal is, well, newer than the classics you mentioned, so the guys (it's always guys, somehow!) who liked Metallica etc. when it came out tended to be older than people who were really into numetal when it was the up-and-coming subgenre. So you get a very "get off our lawn genre" type attitude from some of the older folks.

Plus people have been looking for reasons to consider themselves better than other people for forever, so.

youll find that alot of metal is often heavily left out of spaces because it doesnt fit in to alot of peoples molds of how "metal" should sound, although there are sound differences in genres and does affect how "heavy" it is- which is the reason most of the time. differs from person to person and music experience. there are tons of subgenres though have fun exploring.

(and for the record i love nu metal! was HEAVILY into it when i was 16)

There were exceptions (such as Korn, who to me have always been the darker, more psychologically scarred cousin of Primus) but ultimately I think most nu-metal has more in common with the hard rock of the era like Nickelback and Breaking Benjamin than it does with the adjacent and also borderline alt-metal crowd of bands such as Faith No More, System of a Down, Tool etc. Thus on a general level I don't think it's unfair to exclude it from conversations about metal. Also, to put it bluntly, nu metal was just really bad. There were a few bands that did interesting things in the space; my comparing of Korn to Primus was certainly a favorable one, Deftones have always been appreciated even by the kinds of "elitists" and "gatekeepers" responsible for keeping nu metal out of metal spaces, I think it's impressive that an album as genuinely hate-filled and raw as Slipknot's S/T managed to reach such massive mainstream success. but for every one band such as that you had 10 that were making the most generic, whiny, and just awful mainstream rock music to ever grace our radios. Bands like POD and Papa Roach make up the bulk of the genre. So it doesn't surprise me that metalheads would feel the need to erect a barrier, whether real or artificial, against what they most definitely view as a stain on the history of their beloved genre.