Character ask game: #3, #48, #49 Vincent Valentine, of course!

- Asked by razziecat

What first drew you to this character?

What drew me to Vincent in the first place is a bit convoluted and very silly, but also I was like 12 when the OG came out so bear with me here.

So my mom has ADHD and only discovered this in the past couple years, meaning she spent her entire life trying to accommodate a condition she didn’t realize she had, and this led to some “weird” choices—one of the most notable of which was literally color-coding her children.

I have five siblings, and we were all assigned a color to make it easier to tell what belonged to who. Older sister: green. Older brother: navy blue. Younger sister: purple, which was also her first word. Younger brother: sky blue. Baby sister: turquoise, because our folks tried pink but she rejected it from like 6 months old.

My color, if you hadn’t guessed, was red.

What’s your favorite physical/design feature for this character?

This is hard to answer because Vincent’s design, while being very distinct, is also really…transient, I wanna say? Most of his iconic physical features are temporary, they’re clothing or accessories, we don’t get to see a lot of him.

I really love Vincent’s hair, but I always have the most fun drawing his eyes, so we’ll go with that.

What’s your favorite personality trait in this character?

I actually really love Vincent’s sense of responsibility. It’s gotten him into trouble (that is literally how he wound up in his current condition in the first place) but it’s also the only thing that drives him forward at any point in his entire storyline. He has trouble keeping it from bleeding out into guilt, sure, but without that sense of responsibility he never would have gotten out of his coffin in the first place.

I know he gets a lot of shit for being callow and weak-willed and dramatic, people call him obsessive for what happened with Lucrecia and stupid for just kinda staying in a coffin for decades while the world burned down around him, but I think that’s doing him a disservice.

Vincent put himself to rest out of the same sense of responsibility as what got him killed in the first place. His presence, as far as he’s concerned, is what caused everything to go wrong. He believed that he drove Lucrecia into a relationship with Hojo by coming on too strong, he believed that Sephiroth was his child and therefore he was to blame for giving Project S its lead subject, he believed that his inability to stop them from creating a monster is why he didn’t pass on after Hojo shot him—he genuinely believed that the Lifestream rejected him, that what he’d done was so horrible that even Gaia couldn’t forgive him.

So when he was locked away, he stayed. If no one ever found him, he couldn’t hurt anyone else. He couldn’t do any more damage to the world that he’s been damned to haunt for the rest of time. In hiding, Vincent was removing himself as a mitigating factor in the continued hardship of the world at large, because he already felt responsible for causing so much harm. He thought he was doing the right thing, he thought he was protecting everyone else, he thought he was keeping the few loved ones he might have left safe.

He was wrong—but if he weren’t, there’s no denying that it would have been the right decision.

(From the honest favorite character ask game.)

6. Do you have any nicknames or pet names you use for this character?

8. Does the character’s looks/design matter to you?

11. How did you “fall in love” with this character?

For Vincent!!

- Asked by miss-midnightt

Do you have any nicknames or pet names you use for this character?

Vinnie, Vince, Vincent Fucking Valentine, My Blorbo of Blorbos

Does the character’s looks/design matter to you?

Oh, yeah. I don’t think I would have been as interested in him as I initially was if not for his design; wild black hair and bright red eyes are so aesthetically pleasing, never mind the gauntlet and all the rest. Vincent’s character design is iconic.

How did you “fall in love” with this character?

Okay. So. I will paint you a short narrative, because I’ve been reminiscing about this recently due to the sheer number of people playing Rebirth who have no idea what Vincent’s deal is.

I am around 13 years old, sitting on the couch with a PS1 controller in my hands. I acquired Vincent Valentine earlier in this same play session, and he is in my party. I’ve been running around with him for a little bit, and his limit break is available for the first time. I select it.

Galian Beast,” I read aloud. “Huh.”

“Maybe he’s a summoner?” My younger (but not youngest) sister suggests.

“Maybe.” I hit the button to activate the limit break.

Vincent Valentine, I discover, is not a summoner.

As his little sprite flickers red and black and is replaced by what appears to be a small bipedal behemoth, my eyes go wide.

“…Oh,” I say, not to myself or my sister. “Oh you poor baby.”

And I’ve been absolutely doomed ever since.

(From the honest favorite character ask game.)

Some things I’m trying to work out for if I do write Little Lion Man: Rebirth quite solidly states that Kalm was burned down in 1997, given that NPCs state it was “just ten years ago.” Veld’s wife died in the fire, and Felicia, then a child, was summarily taken by the company and fleetingly utilized in experimentation—this kicks her age down significantly from where I assumed it was.

I’d always assumed Kalm burned down maybe 15-20 years ago? That Elfe is close-ish in age to Sephiroth? But that literally can’t be the case, knowing that it happened in 1997. At this point, all signs point to her actually being a teenager during Before Crisis. Being as generous as I possibly can when meshing her character design with the canonical timeline, she’s probably around Zack’s age.

This means that she probably wouldn’t even exist in this AU, which picks up around 1983—the absolute earliest I can assume she was born would be 1984. Further, BC starts just a couple years later, meaning Veld hasn’t even had his prosthetic for very long in the grand scheme of things—and thus he wouldn’t at all in this AU.

The timing nixes a lot of the trappings people lean on the most in fanfiction that features Veld at all, because apparently it all happened much more recently than we knew until now. And I feel like that would make it even more niche and unappealing to readers.

Ugh.

aikoiya:

getvalentined:

aikoiya:

getvalentined:

Now I’m thinking about the “Save The Gerudo, Save The World” AU again.

Twinrova kills Nabooru in front of Link, and that’s when he finally realizes that all the Sages are dead. They’re all dead. He didn’t know—his body may be an adult’s but he is still a child, he didn’t understand, and nobody had the heart to tell him outright in the very limited time they got to meet him after he defeated the monsters that killed them. In Ocarina of Time, in order for a Sage to fully awaken to their power, they have to die.

Link knows that Ganondorf’s main motivation, prior to all this, was the safety of his people. He’s off the deep end by the time Link is an adult, but it’s possible that in the past, seven years ago, there’s still enough Gerudo King in there to be swayed.

Navi says this is the worst idea ever. Link says he has to try.

So Link makes the decision to go back in time and offer himself—his allegiance, his Triforce, his life—in exchange for Nabooru’s safety. Hero of Time or not, champion of Farore or not, Link is just one person; he knows he can’t defeat the monster Ganondorf will eventually become while on his own and crippled with the knowledge that everyone he loves is dead. That isn’t the future he’s fighting for.

So he turns himself in to the Gerudo. He’s brought before Ganondorf—and now he’s a child, but he acts like an adult, he carries himself like someone who’s been through every bit as much war as Ganondorf has—and makes his offer. Ganondorf can have whatever Link can offer him, if he saves Nabooru.

Ganondorf responds, “…What happened to Nabooru?”

And just like that, the horrible future Link was thrown into against his will is smashed to bits.

Oooo… The fact that he isn’t aware suggests that Kōme & Kotake might be the true villains here…

Correct! Ganondorf has no idea what Twinrova is doing in his name prior to the timeskip; he may not even know after, since “Nabooru” apparently directs their people entirely from the Desert Colossus under Twinrova’s suggestion. There’s no reason for Kotake and Koume to hide the fact that they’re the ones in control there, since they raised their people’s current king and should be more than respected enough to have the support of those people—but they do hide it, pretending that it’s Nabooru in control, which implies that the entire situation at the Spirit Temple was their doing, not Ganondorf’s. Implying that it was hidden from Ganondorf as well.

Ganondorf’s original goal in allying with Hyrule, even after the war between them drove the Gerudo into a wasteland, was to help his people not die in that wasteland. His “mothers” using those same people as magical war slaves is…not something he would be comfortable with, at least pre-timeskip. (I’m not even sure he’d be okay with it after the fact, given the implications of some of the things he does literally over a thousand years later in Hyrule Warriors.)

As a result of Link’s actions in this AU, Ganondorf discovers that Twinrova has been using him this entire time to try to revive their patron god, Demise, the last vestiges of which they hosted in him as a newborn. There’s no way to get it out of him now, but he was also blessed by one of the Three Goddesses at birth in an (ultimately futile in-canon) attempt to keep Demise from taking over, and once he’s aware of that he’s able to maintain a kind of equilibrium that he couldn’t when he didn’t know the truth. The first step to keeping a Fugitive Rage God From Somewhere Beyond Space from twisting your goals and values into something unrecognizable is knowing that it’s in your head in the first place, after all!

The Triforce is still split, of course, but the other Sages are safe and alive, not even aware that they’re meant to be Sages at all—save for Impa. She doesn’t take what she sees as Link allying himself with the side of “evil” particularly well. Link eventually realizes that none of this would have happened in the first place if Zelda hadn’t been so rash (a conclusion that Zelda herself reaches and admits in-canon), but even though Impa knows this is true, she outright refuses to concede such a thing openly. They’ll have to cross that bridge when they come to it. (There may or may not be an Impa vs. Nabooru sage-on-sage violence throwdown over it.)

Mmm… My only problem with this is that in-game, despite the 7 years between, the Gerudo still hadn’t been moved into Hyrule.

Like, why weren’t they the new ruling class?

This also implies that it’s not possible to thrive in the desert, but real life proves this to not be the case.

So long as one has ready access to water, you can grow a number of things there. You can thrive. Egypt was a desert-dwelling people & they weren’t just a kingdom. They were the greatest empire on earth for a time.

At OoT’s stage, the only thing holding the Gerudo back is water & access to men.

But I 100% agree with Kōme & Kotake being the villains. A. They’re canonical witches that use black magic to live as long as they have. B. They have zero issues brainwashing their own people.

Even if Ganondorf was unrepentantly evil, he had to learn to be that way from somewhere. And where else to look than a pair of witches who willingly brainwash people & possibly makes human sacrifices to their Daimaō deity.

It’s also very possible that they’re racist too. So, it would surprise me very little if they were just using Ganondorf.

There’s also the fact that they aren’t his actual mothers, which brings to mind who his mother was &, in fact, who his father could’ve been.

We never learn what happened to them &, in fact, for all we know, Kōme & Kotake could’ve killed them both.

It also makes you wonder if they groomed him specifically to become a tyrant. What sort of parental figures were they? How much did they manipulate him?

Either way. I like seeing the Gerudo & even Ganon portrayed as human, but also not blameless. I mean, Hyrule sure as hell ain’t blameless, so why should any of the other races be?

I’m not saying that it’s impossible to thrive in a desert (I literally live in a desert), I’m using the fact that the source material literally indicates that’s one of the reasons there are so few Gerudo as a launching point. This series also includes things like time travel, zombies made from the corpses of dead royalty, talking swords, islands in the sky, and gods that fell down from space, which aren’t accurate to life in any capacity. I don’t think “living in the desert sucks” is the thing that should break the suspension of disbelief. (Living in the desert, for the record, does genuinely kinda suck even IRL in this grand modern age of ours. A lot of people die out here. Not great. Lack of access to water kills people in fully industrialized cities here! It’s bonkers!)

The Gerudo still being in the desert post-timeskip is possibly because Ganondorf is Unrepentantly Evil by that stage, and clearly has very little direct interaction with his own people. He doesn’t even know that his literal nemesis has been given honorary membership to the clan and is allowed to just run around with his friends and sisters and probably his daughters—he seems to have left taking care of the people to “Nabooru” by then, while he tries to find Zelda and Link and reunite the Triforce so he can have complete control.

It reads to me less like Unrepentant Evil than like he’s moved his own goalposts: initially the goal was getting allies in Hyrule, then when that didn’t work out he took control by force, but that didn’t work out exactly how he wanted either because the Triforce was broken, he decided that he needed that control to be absolute before he’d move on his original goal, and it’s spiraled out of control for the most part. By the time seven years go by and Link finally reappears, Ganondorf has become a man obsessed not with the betterment of his people or even with his own comfort—this is obvious from the state of Castle Town and the construction of his tower, Ganondorf why do you live like this?—but with becoming the only living thing on the planet with enough power to do whatever he wants. The problem is that he’s not sure exactly what he wants anymore, except to get rid of anyone capable of challenging his rule.

It’s an ouroboros, a snake eating its own tail: he wants absolute power so he can subjugate anyone capable of challenging him, he wants to subjugate anyone capable of challenging him in order to obtain absolute power, and on and on in the same cycle that Demise and Hylia have been spinning through since they first came to ground. (Honestly pitiful, but don’t tell him that. Evil is, at its core, pitiful.)

In this AU, Ganondorf’s biological mother* died at some vague point in the past, but Kotake and Koume took custody of Ganondorf at birth because they’re the clan’s only surviving magic users; there used to be others, but they were killed in the war with Hyrule, so Twinrova’s all that’s left. The duty “fell” to them because ruler of the Gerudo always has a level of inherent magic—we see that even in the most recent games in the series, both Urbosa and Riju have the same electricity magic we see from Ganondorf himself in OoT, as does Calamity Timeline Nabooru, the Sage of Lightning—so it’s traditional for the clan’s highest-ranking magic users to be responsible for their upbringing in order to keep them from killing anyone as that magical ability matures. (Although in my head they didn’t kill her directly, but did fail to provide her with medical attention in such a way that led to her passing. They were very calculated in how they handled all things early on, growing increasingly sloppy as time went on and Ganondorf gained more and more power and control.)

*This woman was also Nabooru’s mother, which is why Nabooru was allowed to get away with talking shit about him the way she did; everyone in the clan save for Twinrova read her rebellion against his rule as stupid sibling rivalry on her part and didn’t give her comments or her behavior any weight whatsoever. Twinrova, however, know an unmanifested Sage when they see one, and couldn’t allow her to progress to the point that she learned the truth about herself, hence why they stepped in.

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VALIDATION🍎♡🐍 @sephesisweek day 5

I think about the scene in the Nibel Reactor a lot. Genesis’ phrasing is so devastatingly specific: “Project G gave birth to Angeal, and monsters like myself,” differentiating himself as something where Angeal was someone. Genesis is the failure, he knows that he’s worth less than everyone he’s ever loved, and Sephiroth deserves to know how ironic it is.

When he says that Sephiroth is a monster, it’s not meant to hurt him, it’s not out of pettiness or malice—he’s saying “we’re the same, we’re the same and you’re still better than me, like you’re always better than me, like you’ll always be better than me, I can’t do this without you.”

I think things would have been very, very different if Sephiroth had understood that.

I have a question.

I think Genesis' parents were one of the best people in the game, they were rich people who decided to adopt a victim of child experimentation and falsified reports to shield Genesis from having ShinRa's interest, thus risking their lives. Also, Angeal said he didn't steal from them, not because he was afraid of them punishing them, but simply because he was a friend with their son. As far as I understand, all canon info about them is pointing to them being amazing people, though it's possible I missed something.

Why do you think people write/hc them as shitty people who deserve to die? What canon info says they're bad?


You often say Sephiroth is a horrible monster with absolutely no hope for redemption for killing people in Nibelheim, which is true.


Why do you think Genesis is a cute baby boy for killing everyone in Banora, including his parents, who earned his redemption with his virtuous acts? Were people in Banora all monsters?


Sorry if it's a weird question, but I keep wondering about it and curiosity got the best of me. Genesis and Sephiroth killed people when they were blind with their desire for revenge, but Sephiroth didn't kill his family. What makes it a redeeming act for Genesis?

- Asked by snowbanshee

altocat:

It’s very likely that Genesis’ parents were fully aware of the experiments and were in on it the entire time. Genesis hints as much when he claims that they betrayed him, much in the way of how Shinra betrayed him. Additionally, they did not lie on behalf of their son WILLINGLY, only because Genesis threatened them. They probably would have readily given him up to Shinra, despite the fact that he’s their son.

Add to this the very odd fact that Genesis keeps a collection of his childhood accomplishments OUTSIDE of his old home, as well as the fact that Hollander, Hojo, and Gillian were ALL in the know about the experiments, it’s very, very likely that Genesis always felt disconnected from his parents and that they were very much in league with his abusers. If it happened with Angeal, then there’s no way Genesis’ parents didn’t know. And I highly doubt they took him in out of the kindness of their hearts considering that he just enlisted in SOLDIER the second he came of age. Likely he was being groomed since childhood into joining Shinra’s ranks.

I think that Genesis probably had a very good reason to be angry. And to feel betrayed by his parents. I’m sure there are plenty of people who can add extra details to this to polish up what I’m trying to say, but Genesis is just as much of a victim as both Angeal and Sephiroth. He was still being integrated into Shinra and there was no way they were ever going to let one of the top specimens of Project G live a normal life. Angeal’s family was not rich because Gillian refused to let Shinra/Hollander compensate them. Who’s to say that Genesis’ parents weren’t rich partially because they were high status allies to Shinra? Why else are they in Shinra’s contact list?

And another thing to note:

When Genesis kills his parents (offscreen), he is suffering from the effects of the Degradation Process. He is literally performing an act as a result of mind-altering internal decay and possible brain damage. I’m not doing to pretend that killing one’s parents is a cool and okay thing to do, but this is a scenario in which an effectively dying man being ravaged by sickness is killing his parents out of the perceived likelihood that they were in league with the people who did this to him. And probably had more than enough reasons to confirm that his suspicions were true.

Compare to Sephiroth, who killed other people’s parents, who were completely innocent and had nothing at all to do with what Shinra did to him.

I love that my “Genesis had the decency to kill his own parents, Sephiroth killed everyone else’s” take has made it out into the wild.

Also thank you for pointing out Genesis’ little shrine in the Banora Underground, very few people seem to understand the implications of every achievement Genesis has ever made being hidden away underground instead of in a place of pride in his childhood home. The chalk drawings on the board make it pretty clear that this isn’t new; there are doodles of what would become the Banora brand logo on the chalkboard, meaning that little station has been down there for a really long time. Honestly, fuck Genesis’ parents.

(I have a bit more about this whole topic in my post about how Genesis is only the antagonist of CC because Zack works for Shinra if anyone is interested!)

getvalentined:

getvalentined:

God damn do I hate this fucking shoebox that I live in

What I needed to do: replace a fill valve in the guest bathroom so the toilet would stop hissing.

What happened: I replaced the fill valve, the toilet stopped hissing. Flushed to test, and it started leaking around the base, meaning the wax ring was probably cracked. Removed the toilet to access the wax ring (which needs replacement regularly because the floors of this house are about as level as the surface of the ocean during a hurricane) and discovered standing water and a visible mess of roots in the pipe. That explained the backing up and leaking around the wax ring, so I snaked that, only for the level of standing water in the pipe to begin rising rather than draining. Figured out that the water was rising because the faucet in the bath leaks and it runs through the same part of the main line as this toilet, so it was water from the leaky faucet backing up into the toilet pipe. The only way to turn off water to the bathtub is to turn off water to the house, so I turned off water to the house. Attempted to snake the pipe to clear the clog, a task at which I failed. The water level continued to rise because there was water left in the space between the tub and the toilet pipe that was still draining, so I had to bale that using a combination of empty water bottles and ancient towels. I worked at the clog for over an hour with assistance from my brother, and then my sister, and we succeeded at absolutely nothing. I had a breakdown and we called my parents, who own the house. My dad said he’d be by soon with a better snake. I plugged the tub and turned the water back on to the house so that we had, uh, water, and the faucet went from its earlier state of “dripping consistently” to “unstoppable pencil-width stream.” I was less concerned about this because I just got new faucet handles, specifically because the cold tap is kinda fucked up and hard to turn, so I went to install those. This is an easy task, very simple, just two screws and some torque. I tried to remove the old cold tap knob and stripped the screw, rendering it stuck forever. The faucet was still running. I had a(nother) breakdown. My mom called back to let us know that Dad broke a tooth recently and it was hurting him really badly, and on top of that his blood pressure had spiked way up, to the point that him bending over to mess with the plumbing could be physically dangerous. This was to let my sister and I know that Dad wouldn’t be over until tomorrow. At this point it had been almost six hours since this all started. My sister and I filled up some buckets with water and turned the water to the house back off entirely, which is how it will stay until this is fixed.

I hate this fucking shoebox that I live in.

We have now been without water for a stretch of about 15 hours (less than 6 of which were spent sleeping, of course, because who needs sleep), plus 2 hours before that, with a 40-odd minute window in between. Yaaaay.

getvalentined:

God damn do I hate this fucking shoebox that I live in

What I needed to do: replace a fill valve in the guest bathroom so the toilet would stop hissing.

What happened: I replaced the fill valve, the toilet stopped hissing. Flushed to test, and it started leaking around the base, meaning the wax ring was probably cracked. Removed the toilet to access the wax ring (which needs replacement regularly because the floors of this house are about as level as the surface of the ocean during a hurricane) and discovered standing water and a visible mess of roots in the pipe. That explained the backing up and leaking around the wax ring, so I snaked that, only for the level of standing water in the pipe to begin rising rather than draining. Figured out that the water was rising because the faucet in the bath leaks and it runs through the same part of the main line as this toilet, so it was water from the leaky faucet backing up into the toilet pipe. The only way to turn off water to the bathtub is to turn off water to the house, so I turned off water to the house. Attempted to snake the pipe to clear the clog, a task at which I failed. The water level continued to rise because there was water left in the space between the tub and the toilet pipe that was still draining, so I had to bale that using a combination of empty water bottles and ancient towels. I worked at the clog for over an hour with assistance from my brother, and then my sister, and we succeeded at absolutely nothing. I had a breakdown and we called my parents, who own the house. My dad said he’d be by soon with a better snake. I plugged the tub and turned the water back on to the house so that we had, uh, water, and the faucet went from its earlier state of “dripping consistently” to “unstoppable pencil-width stream.” I was less concerned about this because I just got new faucet handles, specifically because the cold tap is kinda fucked up and hard to turn, so I went to install those. This is an easy task, very simple, just two screws and some torque. I tried to remove the old cold tap knob and stripped the screw, rendering it stuck forever. The faucet was still running. I had a(nother) breakdown. My mom called back to let us know that Dad broke a tooth recently and it was hurting him really badly, and on top of that his blood pressure had spiked way up, to the point that him bending over to mess with the plumbing could be physically dangerous. This was to let my sister and I know that Dad wouldn’t be over until tomorrow. At this point it had been almost six hours since this all started. My sister and I filled up some buckets with water and turned the water to the house back off entirely, which is how it will stay until this is fixed.

I hate this fucking shoebox that I live in.

Not trying to be a bother here, but I was wondering a few things about your post on the FS crew.

  1. Do we know for certain Glenn only started gambling when his grandma went to the hospital? There's a line in the game that to me implied that it was a habit he actually learned from her.
  2. Where was the info that Lucia trained him? Been trying to find that since last night honestly but maybe I'm just blind lmao. I know that they were cadets at the same time but I want to know if its true she trained him somehow.
  3. Where did we learn they weren't actually friends? Glenn mentioned being able to acquire them because of the rumor of interpersonal relationships being prioritized and Matt mentioning that camaraderie is important for the mission implying at they all at least trust and are somewhat friends with each other.
  4. What part was posturing? I didn't pick up on any of that honestly. Nor do I see why a trio that has known each other for roughly 4 years would need to do so (Original FS trailers show them meeting in 1998). But I could have easily missed things honestly.
  5. Did they have something to do with Sephiroth being called in?? I don't remember them sending out the distress signal. I thought that was a call Shinra made all on its own since he had new mission orders.

Sorry I'm not trying to be a pain I just genuinely feel like I might've missed those somewhere or that I was bad at picking up any hints the game might've dropped. I can be pretty rough with missing that info and haven't found anyone else that's talked about them with this much detail yet.

- Asked by screaming-lurks

I mean, my biggest issues with these characters are still the acceptance of genocide, suggested child murder, and excitedly declared intention to kill a dog, but I’ll break the rest of it down because a lot of it is probably pretty easy to miss if you’re not already feeling critical of the cast. (Hopefully those issues get called out somehow eventually, but they haven’t yet, so I’d have a bad taste in my mouth over the characters just from that.)

Putting the explanation under the cut!

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