This post [X] contains a pjo fan desperately wanting to believe that Percy/Annabeth isn’t toxic.
A Percy/Annabeth shipper responded and honestly I don’t agree with some of the stuff they said. They specifically mentioned percabeth antis a couple times and I felt I need to address a few things since they were missing the point about a lot of arguments I’ve made.
It’s far more than just the nickname. That’s literally just the tip of the iceberg. I don’t know why so many people get caught up on the nickname when it’s like. some of the least shit Annabeth has done to Percy that we take issue with. For me, anyway.
Also, like it would be one thing if Annabeth was just using the seaweed nickname as an insult at 12 years old like most children do and grew out of it later on as she matured, but that’s not the case. Read Riordan, from Annabeth at college (an adult):
It’s more of an indication to me of what Annabeth really thinks of Percy. She doesn’t respect him. When he has achievements (ones in academia which he canonically has struggled with and felt shitty about), instead of being happy for him like a supportive friend/girlfriend would, she seethes in jealously and envy. She has to be better than him, because if he’s stupid and she’s less than him that means she’s stupid too, and she can’t have that as the daughter of the wisdom and strategy goddess.
One of Rhaenyra’s biggest opps (in HOTD) really was her own father. Because how are you going to proclaim your daughter as heir, only to then marry her best friend and have four kids, three sons, in an environment that is against women already as is but even more so with one sitting on the Iron Throne? And then, not only, do you not prepare her for anything political but scold her publicly, which isn’t good for her image, and just….hardly do anything to aid her until you’re on your last leg? And yet there are still fans saying he was a “great dad” and that he “did all he could”. HA, I THINK NOT!
I am genuinely, consistently confused by people who are team green solely based on the argument that Rhaenyra should have saved Alicent. Not only because the dance of the dragons is meant to directly parallel the Amethyst Empress and the Bloodstone Emperor but also because it seems their arguments are built on this very shakey ground of “Rhaenyra should have stopped her father from marrying alicent and everything that happened after that was because of her inability to act.”
Lets take a second and look at it from both a book and show stand point.
saw a post about Ryan Condal’s take on Aegon’s relationship with his son and I want to vent because I really don’t think the man has even bothered re-watching s1 to recall what he made.
Quote:
This is the thing that Viserys never did for Aegon. And Aegon did not study at the feet of his father. His father had his male heir and then essentially said, “Well, that box is ticked,” he was ill. I think he enjoyed having a son but didn’t put in the work the way he did with Rhaenyra when he was a younger man. And I think Aegon resents that and feels that part of the reason that he’s not seen as being suited for the crown or the throne is because he didn’t get that training from his father. So now he’s going to make up for that tenfold with Jaehaerys.
Let’s start with Viserys’ parenting, shall we?
“Viserys never did for Aegon”
In ep2 we saw a then healthy Viserys parading baby Aegon with pride and joy. It has been the only “good” scene we had between them because it’s also the only time we see Aegon as a child. It’s safe to assume that he continued to dote on his son during his toddler years and only stopped when Viserys became too sick or when Aegon started developing a personality.
Viserys had no reason to bring Aegon to council meetings, had no reason to groom Aegon as heir because he wasn’t. That’s the entire point. We also never saw him putting any work on Rhaenyra besides her serving as a cupbearer in ep2.
“He enjoyed having a son but didn’t put in the work the way he did with Rhaenyra.”
What kinda of work did he put exactly with Rhaenyra? Rhaenyra already felt inadequate in the first episode because her father desperately wanted a son, when he murdered his wife and his newborn died, he named her heir. In ep2 when Rhaenyra makes a suggestion about how to handle the situation with Daemon Viserys dismisses her and it’s Corlys who supports and backs her up.
In ep3 when celebrating Aegon’s birthday, it’s established Rhaenyra has been once more isolated at court. Viserys never cared about the gap he created between her and alicent when he decided to take his daughter’s friend for a bride and unlike Alicent, he didn’t even reach out when she was lonely.
In fact, in the same episode we see he’s in a hurry to marry Rhaenyra off and he publically berates, scolds and humiliates her in front of people at court. In private, he still doesn’t understand her nor does he try to.
The only time viserys was “good” to Rhaenyra was a) in driftmark during the fight between the kids and b) when he spoke in favor for her against Vaemond.
And those scenes aren’t even in character for show Viserys if we’re gonna be honest. They only happen because they must. The plot couldn’t move forward otherwise.
“He [….] didn’t put in the work the way he did with Rhaenyra […] And I think Aegon resents that.”
Except he doesn’t.
Aegon doesn’t resent that because the show has never established any feelings of rivalry or jealousy between Aegon & Rhaenyra and that’s because we didn’t have a single scene between the two.
In ep6, a very sick Viserys is seen watching fondly both Aemond & Aegon training with Jacaerys & Lucerys.
It’s conveniently forgotten that in the context Viserys enjoys watching all boys together. And he takes their “fighting” as something boyish and playful. He visibly gets upset when Harwin and Criston throw punches at one another.
The only time Viserys is shown to be taking a side between his children is in the Driftmark episode when Aemond loses his eyes. And while in that context he’s protecting his grandsons and to an extention Rhaenyra herself. There are more reasons to feel disdain towards Viserys; like how he particularly talks to alicent in that episode, how he’s rough with Aegon himself etc. Viserys is incapable of handling the situation. Even when his daughter who is also his heir gets injured, his solution is for everyone to go to bed and for tomorrow to depart.
It makes sense that Aegon would become resentful of Viserys as he grew older but that resentment has to do more about how his father treated his side of the family rather than how he treated Rhaenyra (who he has history of treating like garbage as well btw)
“So now he’s going to make up for that tenfold with Jaehaerys.”
Y'know… I gotta love how people rant about the show making both sides neutral in order to ‘show depth’ and then you get their interviews and you see that depth is merely fans headcanoning.
Let me explain. At first glance Aegon looks nice with Jaehaerys. it’s the first time we (viewers) see the kid and it’s the first time we see Aegon fully happy. it’s nice. Out of context.
Now let’s take the context, a joyful Aegon walks into the chamber, he asks where his son is, he goes to check the blond one that sits few feet apart from her mother because Aegon can’t tell the twins apart. He quickly realizes that’s his daughter so he asks again. Helaena informs him their son is at their library, doing his custom and gently reminds him Jaehaerys shouldn’t be disturbed. Aegon ignores that. He tells her the reason he wants him is because he wants to take him in the council meeting and “start his training”, Helaena poses a question; what if Jaehaerys doesn’t even want to be king - like Aegon himself hadn’t wanted to - Aegon acts as if he didn’t hear and he still seeks the boy out, forcing his son to attend the meeting upon finding him.
In the council meeting, Aegon’s attention is mostly on Jaehaerys who seems to be annoying Tyland. Aegon encourages that behavior and seems to take joy from it. To the point where he (rather stupidity) almost humiliates Lord Lannister by making him act as a pony for his son to ride.
This is not Aegon being affectionate to Jaehaerys. This is Aegon acting the way he probably wished Viserys had acted with him; encouraging of his rebellious/misbehaving attitude, dismissing his council and putting down important people in favor of his son.
He’s not breaking the circle of neglect; he continued it in a similiar pattern. Jaehaerys is incredibly young and easy to entertain. The exactly way baby Aegon was in ep2. Aegon already ignored the possibility his heir might not be interested in his so called duties in the exact way his own mother had ignored and kept pressuring him to take a role she was molding him for.
So, similiar to Viserys, Aegon might have adopted a different attitude with his son as soon as he’d develop a persona of his own. The seeds were already there.
Saying that Aegon was simply trying to be a good dad because Viserys was shit and he was only good to Rhaenyra and Aegon felt jealous of that ignores every single time of Viserys was a walking human garbage to everyone.
Alicent WAS the VICTIM in the show. She was made to marry a much older man whom she did not love who martially raped her and gave her children at age 15-16.
But what EVERYONE seems to be fucking ignore is that fact that Aemma was a victim too. Aemma only had a SUCCESSFUL pregnancy at 15. She was married at fucking 11 and had miscarriages before finally having Rhaenyra four years later. Everyone is always infantilising Alicent and making it seem as though her abusive actions are justified because of her victimhood BUT AEMMA WAS A VICTIM TOO. One could even argue Aemma had it worse then Alicent in many ways though i will not be because both of their pain is unimaginable and fucking valid.
Overall, the parallels between them just further my devastation of Alicents continuing the cycle of abuse. Aemma lost a multitude of children, she was married at age 11, her mother died giving birth to her, she nearly died giving birth to Rhaenyra, yet not once did she ever behave the way Alicent did. Alicent lost her mother, was at her powerful fathers command, and felt so fucking alone and WAS THE VICTIM. Yet, she became the victimiser the day she sharpened her pain to use as a knife against others, ESPECIALLY her children.
In the show, Alicent makes it obvious that she will have the final say on her children’s marriage which MAKES IS SO MUCH MORE INFURIATING to remember she marries her 13 year old daughter and 15 year old son. Makes it so maddening after her “queer customs line”, makes it SO disheartening after her own victimhood just to make her daughter a even MORE severely and painfully wronged victim (again pain should never be compared, i only mention this because objectively Helaena was married younger and gave birth younger. Despite Viserys and his fucking pedo rapist actions, he was never violent w Alicent in the way Aegon is with everyone. And MAY I REMIND YOU, Aegon had not one BUT TWO Bastards born on the silk streets in the same moon as his twins birth?)
Why THE FUCK is Alicent always the victim and justified in her actions and Aemma is just given “oh thats so sad”. Why does it seem like no one else notices the wretched mirrors of each other they are yet, the fandom doesn’t seem to give a flying fuck about Aemma besides to throw her death onto the pile of shitty things Viserys did?
Aemma Arryn deserves so SO much more then what we are giving her.
Aemma Arryn was a queen, and a victim, and through it all a loving mother despite never having one of her own.
Aemma Arryn does not deserve to be forgotten so easily.
Reminder that Aemma Arryn was 11 when she was “wed and bred” by Viserys, 15 when she gave birth to Rhaenyra, and 23 when she died in childbirth. She should’ve been at the club😔
Btw, it’s genuinely wild as fuck to see the discrepancy between how Sian Brooke and Paddy Considine’s interviews, especially on the topic of Aemma’s brutal murder.
Brooke accurately described the whole thing as a bloodbath and focused on the horror of being nothing but ‘a vessel for childbirth’ and a 'woman who’s at the mercy of a man’s decision’ while also drawing parallels between this abomination and the very real abuse that women still face today. Meanwhile, Considine was out there talking about how Viserys was 'a good man’, saying that the horrifying death of his wife 'really cemented the love that Viserys felt for her.’ and that 'people misunderstood and thought that he’d decided to kill his wife. But that wasn’t the case.’
Can we talk about how one so-called “solution” certain people have for avoiding the war is Viserys naming Rhaenyra his Hand and “teaching” her how to rule?
Are we seriously going to ignore the fact that she ruled Dragonstone for over 10 years before her father died? That doesn’t count for experience in ruling in their book? Dragonstone is the Targaryens’ ancestral seat and a practice run for the future monarch, which is why the heir to the throne is named Prince/Princess of Dragonstone.
In medieval England, the Prince and Princess of Wales were sent there to establish their own household and learn how to rule.
How exactly would staying in King’s Landing benefit Rhaenyra? So she could waste her time fighting off the snakes her father let into their nest? Waste her time trying to fix her father’s mistakes?
And the argument “Viserys should have taught her how to rule” is absurd. What could he have possibly taught her? That going back on your word is not ok? That marrying an ambitious upstart and letting her bully your child is not ok? That naming your daughter heir and then endangering her future rule by fathering spawns on a malicious woman way beneath your station is not ok? That marrying your daughter to a rumored gay man and minimizing her chances of having heirs is not ok? That pushing away the brother who has always been by your side is not ok? That renaming a dangerously ambitious man as your Hand after you know perfectly well what his intentions are, is not ok? That letting your wife keep a traitorous murderer as her sworn shield is not ok?
I think Rhaenyra learned all that between the ages 8 and 16. There is nothing useful Viserys could have taught her in preparation for her ascension (he may have been a good man but he was a shitty king).
What about Aegon the Usurper? What did he do those 10 years? Drink and hump while his family was “plotting” to make him king and not even bothering to let him know? Yeah, he sure is king material…
I love how focused people are on what Rhaenyra should have done to make the transition easier but no one talks about how Aegon did absolutely nothing and got everything handed to him by his mommy.
“Alicent holds love for our enemy, that makes her a fool.”
Alicent’s love:
-Has secret meetings with and eventually marries Rhaenyra’s dad
-Tells her children that Rhaenyra’s boys are bastards (regardless of the truth, this is dangerous and fosters resentment)
-Has Rhaenyra (or anyone) bring a newborn baby to her immediately after it’s born to prove a point and humiliate Rhaenyra and Laenor
-Allows Aegon to torment Aemond as long as it’s in private
-Smacks Aegon multiple times (regardless of his actions, resorting to physical violence doesn’t solve the problem)
-Tells her children that “you are the challenge” making them fear for their lives if Rhaenyra becomes Queen
-Tries to cut out a child’s eye but instead hurts Rhaenyra (and faces no consequences for it??? Like attempting to attack any member of the royal family is a huge NO but if she does it, it’s fine??? All parties are in the wrong for this one but b r o)
-Tells Rhaenys of all people “you should’ve been queen, we all know that, but will you help me make sure Rhaenyra doesn’t get the throne and by extension your own granddaughter as well???” Be so for real
And before anyone jumps on me for criticizing her, “she’s a victim of abuse!” an explanation for behavior is not an excuse. Being abused does not mean you get to perpetuate it later. You either become like Alicent and think “if I have to suffer, so does everyone else,” OR you remember how shitty it was feeling that way and being treated that way and try to make it better for others. No I will not debate that.
A lot of this could’ve been avoided if
1. Viserys had a spine
2. Alicent didn’t listen to her father and actually made an effort to not only foster a relationship between Rhaenyra and Aegon/Aemond/Helaena, but also with Rhaenyra’s boys.
deep diving into the episode three line from rhaenyra, “no one is here for me,” and how if the takeaway from that scene is that rhaenyra is a selfish brat you aren’t proficient enough to do anything past surface-level reading.
in episode one rhaenyra expresses to alicent that she hopes her father gets his son, “for as long as i can recall it’s all he’s wanted.” which leads us (the audience) to understand that while rhaenyra loves both of her parents she feels ostracized from her father (and mayhaps even her mother, to some extent, because of her constant pregnancies) due to his ‘need’ for a son to continue the targaryen dynasty. she is a daughter, only seen as valuable for her womb, which is evidenced that she knows about when talking to her mother. rhaenyra wishes to be a knight and ride off to battle and glory, with aemma giving her a gentle reality check on her lot in life. she does not want to serve the same purpose as her mother.
aemma dies near the end of the episode, with viserys ordering her butchered for the chance that his long-awaited male heir might live. this is a violent and gruesome scene, followed by rhaenyra not even being given the privilege of hearing her mother’s death first. she is instead relegated to members of the small council being alerted, even corlys and rhaenys learning about this before her, she is a silent member on the sidelines. she does not know the extent of what has happened, but she knows that something is wrong.
we have to think about how she learns of her mother’s fate. did otto tell her? did rhaenys? did viserys? did she see her mother’s body ripped open? did she see the bloody sheets left at the scene? was she allowed to hold baby baelon, considering he didn’t die immediately? was she there when he took his last breath? maybe it would bring her some comfort, she didn’t get to say goodbye to her mom. maybe she held him until he passed. did her father offer any explanation? we’ll never know, but these are all such heavy questions in regards to what she experienced that day. she’s fourteen, has spent her entire life watching her mother grieve dead baby after dead baby, losing little bits of herself in the process. it’s no wonder this was a traumatizing period for her, fueling her want (her need) to not be shackled down by marriage and childbirth.
even at her mother and brother’s funeral she isn’t allowed to just grieve, to just be. she has to hold her head high, she has to comfort her father, she has to order their corpses burned. was her father happy for the few hours he had a son? she wouldn’t know, she never will be that for him. how long does he spend wallowing is his self pity? he reprimands daemon for not being there for his niece, but where was he, her father? he banishes daemon, takes comfort from his daughter’s best friend. he finally comes to her, tells her of a great danger rising from the north; from my blood comes the prince that was promised, his will be the song of ice and fire. she hasn’t heard from him in days, a targaryen must be seated on the iron throne to unite the realm against the cold and the dark. her mother is dead, and he has wasted the years since she was born wanting a son. she is now enough, her mother never was.
it has now been six months since her mother’s death (murder), and she has been heir the *entire* time. her father won’t talk to her, she is still the cupbearer for the small council. lord corlys is angry about a war he says has cost him, the crown will not help. she suggests they use dragons, a show of force against their enemies. her father admonishes her, “it isn’t that simple, rhaenyra.” he allows the lords at the table to belittle her efforts. the only one appreciative is corlys, “at least the princess has a plan.” otto says there are better uses for her talents, she has been heir to the iron throne for six months. she’s been given the chance to choose a future kingsguard, she wants one with actual combat experience. the hand is exacerbated, she is firm in her decision. ser criston cole will be the replacement for ser ryam redwyne.
alicent has been visiting her father in his private chambers secretly, corlys wants his daughter to be the next queen. viserys begins openly courting lady laena of house velaryon. rhaenyra and alicent visit the sept, she expresses her worry, her mother has only dead for half a year. the lords seek to replace her, alicent convinces her that she cannot worry about the plots of lords and men, she is the heir, however. why shouldn’t she worry? she misses her mother.
she meets with her father, he reassures her, “i loved your mother very much.” she apologizes for speaking out of turn at the small council meeting, he tells her she will learn (will he be the one to teach her, though?) daemon has taken a dragon’s egg and seized dragonstone, bringing news of his future marriage to lady mysaria. the king means to go himself to stop him, otto will not let him. daemon took baelon’s egg. rhaenyra is angry. she reaches dragonstone just after otto’s party, she knows they were about to come to blows. she confronts daemon, she is the reason he was disinherited. if he kills her, he’d be done with all this bother. daemon scoffs, walking away from her. he throws the egg whilst still retreating. rhaenyra smiles and leaves. her father is mad once he learns what she’s done. she left without his permission, but she retrieved the egg and prevented bloodshed, he should be pleased with her efforts. otto would never have been able to accomplish what she did, he relents.
rhaenys lectures her about the order of things. the realm will never accept a woman ascending the iron throne, but it’s different for her. her father is the king, rhaenys’ father dies as a prince. her father made the lords of the realm swear obeisance to her, rhaenys never had such a thing. the lords chose viserys over rhaenys at the great council, viserys has not given them a choice. rhaenys is the the queen who never was, rhaenyra is the queen to be. when she is queen she will create a new order, rhaenys warns there will be war (unfortunately she is right).
another meeting takes place between father and daughter. he must take a new wife, someone to help propagate the targaryen line. they are vulerable, to easily ended. rhaenyra understands, it is his duty as king. obviously he will marry laena, the daughter of one of the most powerful houses in the realm and of pure valyrian stock, it is a fine match. alicent is still visiting her father in secret.
her father calls a small council meeting, he means to announce his next wife. rhaenyra is ready, she gave him her blessing (why is alicent here? she never has been before.) her father starts speaking, “i intend to marry… the lady alicent hightower.” corlys is enraged, otto is pleased, alicent is anxious. rhaenyra was ready, it has all fallen apart. alicent is her best friend, that friendship dies before her very eyes. she runs from the room.
it has been two years. viserys and alicent are married, and they have a son, with one more baby on the way. the boy’s name is aegon, it is his second birthday. he has past his infancy, the lords believe it is only a matter of time until the king names him heir, rhaenyra is well aware of this. the queen visits the godswood where rhaenyra sits. she overrides rhaenyra’s authority, commanding the singer to leave. she states the king wishes for her to join them, he wants them to have fun as a family. they do not need her to celebrate his long-awaited son. it is the king’s command, she leaves unhappily. alicent wishes for things to be different, rhaenyra knows they never can be.
together they all sit, traveling towards the kingswood. rhaenyra asks after alicent’s well-being, viserys reminds her that she will be in this position sooner than late (the same position that killed her mother). “it isn’t so bad, the days are long but aegon came quickly and without fuss.” the queen states. rhaenyra is hurt, she tries not to show it. the king reminds her she has duties, rhaenyra retorts sarcastically. how long will these duties last, once her father names alicent’s son as heir over her? her life will be forfeit before long. no one is here for her.
“no one is here for me.” translates to “no one has been here for me. i’ve been alone and angry and terrified for years. i am my father’s heir, but what does that mean? what will it cost? you put me here. daemon put me here. alicent put me here. you have a son now, he outlived baelon and my other siblings. how long until i am cast aside again? made to be some petty lord’s wife, made to be a broodmare until it kills me? i don’t want to end up like my mother. this heirship is all i have. it will soon no longer be mine. i’m only seventeen. no one is here for me.”
rhaenyra is never shown the same amount of grace as alicent for her strifes and anguish in life, for the fact that she too was a child from episodes one through five. rhaenyra might not have been a child bride, but she still spent her life being told she was never enough. she was not a boy, she could not be the heir, her father needed an heir. he kills her mother for it, he ignores her unless she can benefit him. he makes her believe that he will marry laena, only to blindside her by marrying alicent. she realizes alicent has been lying to her for months. her father continues to undermine her throughout the years. he names her heir to spite daemon, which she admits she knows about in episode two. he allows the lords to ignore her. it takes him two years to reassure her he won’t replace her. rhaenyra is an angsty teen who has seemingly lost everything and has no support to counter that. she is not upset that no one showed up to a two-year-olds birthday party with her in mind, she is upset that her father continuously overlooks her, that he takes and takes and takes everything from her. he took her mother, he took daemon, he took alicent, he had a son. she has not been able to catch a break due to her father’s selfishness. in all honesty, she should have acted out worse, maybe burn everything to the ground. viserys would deserve it, she was far too lenient with him.
