Nataliya's Reviews > Lie With Me
Lie With Me
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by
The stories of young star-crossed lovers have sustained popular literature for centuries, speaking to the heart and pushing all the right buttons. And yet something about this acclaimed story rang false and left me a bit unsatisfied.
You see, it quickly veers into the predictable melodrama, preparing for the gut punch ending from the get-go and yet becoming a bit trite and formulaic. Had it been a movie, it would have had the requisite monochrome soulgazing to tinkly music, complete with wistful voiceover.
This is a story of a doomed love affair between two adolescent boys in the mid-1980s France, one of whom is determined to keep it secret and the other one … well, he’s destined to become a writer and don’t you ever dare forget it (I swear, it feels like the narrator needs to bring up that he is a writer on every other page, ad nauseum, lest we forget). We know from the beginning that the two boys part ways, and the story itself begins as one of them — the writer — runs into the son of his erstwhile lover and learns the tragic story of the man who had left him in his youth.
And then he gets his long-awaited closure — in the written form, no less.
You see, this is the book that ultimately rests on the feeling of closure, on validation, on affirming the great human fallacy — the desire to matter, to be vindicated, to get the answers we crave for that inner peace. After all, losing a great love of your impressionable youth without as much as a goodbye is hard, it eats at you, it brings up all the what-ifs and may-have-beens.
The neat closure to show that the impact from the secret affair reverberated through both men’s lives, and that the one who cruelly left realized his mistake in not staying true to himself, and that the young love remained in his heart, and that denying your desires leads you to solitude and unhappiness, yadda yadda yadda. It’s an unsubtle moral lesson without taking into much consideration the societal and family and religious and responsibility pressures that led to Thomas’ choices - and all those had plenty of room for subtlety.
And this is a disservice to Thomas’ character, reducing him to a road not taken, a character in a conventional melodrama, with a quick tearjerker ending on a letter that admits the ultimate guilt of self-deception, with the intention of making the reader wistfully sigh about the fallacy of such choices in the silent stoic tragedy of Thomas’ life — all that added too many visible marionette strings to the story that otherwise could have been touching in its eternal simplicity, told in a bit of a monotone (author’s or translator’s — I don’t know and can’t really judge as I don’t speak French).
It’s not a bad book — but it’s also a book that does not add anything new to the story it tells, resting heavily on the final letter of confession and validation, stating yet again that repressing your nature is unhealthy and rife with consequences — and unfortunately little else. Had it been just a short story consisting only of the first part — that of the boys’ adolescence — it would have been stronger and sweeter, more impactful and much less unnecessarily melodramatic.
3 stars. Middle-of-the-pack serviceable story, but ultimately easily forgettable.
—————
Oh, and while I’m at it, let me get these off my chest:
(1) “Back then there were no cell phones, so I had to call him at his house.” Who is this story told to — future generations? I trust we all know about the lack of cell phones in the mid-80s, without the need for explanation.
(2) “His was the first male sex I held in my hand, other than my own.” I don’t know if that’s the writer’s fault or the translator’s — but does anyone else loathe the “sex” euphemism for genitalia? Every time you call a penis “male sex”, a cute fluffy kitten dies a gruesome death somewhere.
(3) “Carnivorous kisses.” I refer you to the placenta cook book after this expression. (view spoiler)
——————
Also posted on my blog.["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>
You see, it quickly veers into the predictable melodrama, preparing for the gut punch ending from the get-go and yet becoming a bit trite and formulaic. Had it been a movie, it would have had the requisite monochrome soulgazing to tinkly music, complete with wistful voiceover.
This is a story of a doomed love affair between two adolescent boys in the mid-1980s France, one of whom is determined to keep it secret and the other one … well, he’s destined to become a writer and don’t you ever dare forget it (I swear, it feels like the narrator needs to bring up that he is a writer on every other page, ad nauseum, lest we forget). We know from the beginning that the two boys part ways, and the story itself begins as one of them — the writer — runs into the son of his erstwhile lover and learns the tragic story of the man who had left him in his youth.
And then he gets his long-awaited closure — in the written form, no less.
You see, this is the book that ultimately rests on the feeling of closure, on validation, on affirming the great human fallacy — the desire to matter, to be vindicated, to get the answers we crave for that inner peace. After all, losing a great love of your impressionable youth without as much as a goodbye is hard, it eats at you, it brings up all the what-ifs and may-have-beens.
And so this book becomes that closure that we want, the closure that confirms that - yes - you mattered, that - yes - it was all ultimately revolving around you, that - yes - your choices were true and special and right, that - yes - you weren’t the only one still reeling from the long-lost love, that - yes - it was all reciprocated and real and validated.
The neat closure to show that the impact from the secret affair reverberated through both men’s lives, and that the one who cruelly left realized his mistake in not staying true to himself, and that the young love remained in his heart, and that denying your desires leads you to solitude and unhappiness, yadda yadda yadda. It’s an unsubtle moral lesson without taking into much consideration the societal and family and religious and responsibility pressures that led to Thomas’ choices - and all those had plenty of room for subtlety.
And this is a disservice to Thomas’ character, reducing him to a road not taken, a character in a conventional melodrama, with a quick tearjerker ending on a letter that admits the ultimate guilt of self-deception, with the intention of making the reader wistfully sigh about the fallacy of such choices in the silent stoic tragedy of Thomas’ life — all that added too many visible marionette strings to the story that otherwise could have been touching in its eternal simplicity, told in a bit of a monotone (author’s or translator’s — I don’t know and can’t really judge as I don’t speak French).
It’s not a bad book — but it’s also a book that does not add anything new to the story it tells, resting heavily on the final letter of confession and validation, stating yet again that repressing your nature is unhealthy and rife with consequences — and unfortunately little else. Had it been just a short story consisting only of the first part — that of the boys’ adolescence — it would have been stronger and sweeter, more impactful and much less unnecessarily melodramatic.
3 stars. Middle-of-the-pack serviceable story, but ultimately easily forgettable.
—————
Oh, and while I’m at it, let me get these off my chest:
(1) “Back then there were no cell phones, so I had to call him at his house.” Who is this story told to — future generations? I trust we all know about the lack of cell phones in the mid-80s, without the need for explanation.
(2) “His was the first male sex I held in my hand, other than my own.” I don’t know if that’s the writer’s fault or the translator’s — but does anyone else loathe the “sex” euphemism for genitalia? Every time you call a penis “male sex”, a cute fluffy kitten dies a gruesome death somewhere.
(3) “Carnivorous kisses.” I refer you to the placenta cook book after this expression. (view spoiler)
——————
Also posted on my blog.["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>
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Reading Progress
May 10, 2020
– Shelved
February 13, 2021
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Started Reading
February 13, 2021
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Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 81 (81 new)
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nastya
(last edited Feb 13, 2021 06:12PM)
(new)
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rated it 2 stars
Feb 13, 2021 06:12PM
such a great review! I wish I was as eloquent in mine! but yeah the tragedy of Thomas's later life was so manipulative. Sorry but I just don't believe that those few stolen fucks in the short span of time where so impactful on his whole life. maybe I'm not romantic enough?
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nastyako wrote: "such a great review! I wish I was as eloquent in mine! but yeah the tragedy of Thomas's later life was so manipulative. Sorry but I just don't believe that those few stolen fucks in the short span ..."Thanks, Nastya! Yeah, what he does with Thomas’s life is annoying and manipulative. That letter showing the greatest happiness for him back in his teen years that he paid dearly for rejecting was completely unnecessary and a cheap Hallmark-like plot device — just to make the protagonist feel good about his life choices and teach a heavy-handed lesson about the dangers of denying your true self. And little else — and it either needed something else there or should have been a wistful short story cut to a third of its size.
I totally agree with your feelings about the term "male sex." Can hardly write it. Blame Molly Ringwald. I didn't even know she was fluent in French let alone translating books!
Warren wrote: "I totally agree with your feelings about the term "male sex." Can hardly write it. Blame Molly Ringwald. I didn't even know she was fluent in French let alone translating books!"I know, right? I wonder if it was just as awkward of a euphemism in French or was it Ringwald who added the awkwardness. I think this book got a big buzz because Ringwald was the translator (or so the internet would have me believe) — but really, who cares as long as the translation is good? Now I’m really curious if the French original has a less awful expression.
Cbj wrote: "Lol at the make sex part."And that “male sex” was written completely seriously, too. That just reads so stilted and like something a maiden aunt would say.
6.8 million people love this ASMR video and I found it exactly like you found this: yeah, good, pleasant enough but...what's the fuss?"Male sex" is always an eye-roller, isn't it.
Richard wrote: "6.8 million people love this ASMR video and I found it exactly like you found this: yeah, good, pleasant enough but...what's the fuss?"Male sex" is always an eye-roller, isn't it."
There’s supposed to be a fuss about that? Huh? I can’t keep up with the cool kids these days.
And yes — “male sex” is an eye-roller. I mean, seriously? Whoever thought it is a good euphemism has never met a normal human being.
Marta wrote: "The Placenta cook book... 😂😂😂"I thought it would go well with the “carnivorous kisses” expression!
Nataliya wrote: "There’s supposed to be a fuss about that? Huh? I can’t keep up with the cool kids these days.And yes — “male sex” is an eye-roller. I mean, seriously? Whoever thought it is a good euphemism has never met a normal human being.."
If anyone ever asked me to touch his "male sex" I'd *fall*down*laughing*
I know...there's so much I think needy people need a sharp slap and a shake to distract them from vanishing up their own nostrils.
Richard wrote: "If anyone ever asked me to touch his "male sex" I'd *fall*down*laughing*"It’s probably the most offputting way to refer to it, isn’t it?
Unless one also counts that dreadful “male member” euphemism.
Ick.
I remember reading "male sex" or "her sex" in Anais Nin and Lawrence Durrell, both stalwarts of the mid-twentieth century, if my grasp of history is correct. If I had written this book, God forbid, I'd have gone with "rapidly stiffening boner." (Which is probably why I, unlike the lead character in this book, am not an author.)
Richard wrote: "If he's a member of mine, I want to get some cash dues to offset the embarrassment he's caused."😂😂😂
Left Coast Justin wrote: "I remember reading "male sex" or "her sex" in Anais Nin and Lawrence Durrell, both stalwarts of the mid-twentieth century, if my grasp of history is correct. If I had written this book, God forbid,..."Justin, writer or not — your choice would have been much more appropriate for two horny teenagers than the scandalized maiden aunt euphemism the author or the translator chose to go with. 😂
Every time you call a penis “male sex”, a cute fluffy kitten dies a gruesome death somewhere.Sadly, that's true. This has to stop.
Nastyako wrote: Sorry but I just don't believe that those few stolen fucks in the short span of time where so impactful on his whole life. maybe I'm not romantic enough?Or maybe a few stolen fucks are all the author has ever managed?
Left Coast Justin wrote: "Nastyako wrote: Sorry but I just don't believe that those few stolen fucks in the short span of time where so impactful on his whole life. maybe I'm not romantic enough?Or maybe a few stolen fuck..."
ha! 😃but like there should be more recent and impactful ones? Like who remembers at 40+ something that happend when you were 17? and at least if they were friends and had any relationship outside of sex. but no. so strange....
Dennis wrote: "Every time you call a penis “male sex”, a cute fluffy kitten dies a gruesome death somewhere.Sadly, that's true. This has to stop."
Yes. Careless language needs to stop inadvertent murder of innocent kittens.
nastyako wrote: "Left Coast Justin wrote: "Nastyako wrote: Sorry but I just don't believe that those few stolen fucks in the short span of time where so impactful on his whole life. maybe I'm not romantic enough?..."
I have nothing against fondly remembering your youthful trysts — but in this book our writer character has achieved a successful relationship with a younger guy, but his erstwhile lover, the one who kept the relationship secret and broke it off, has not managed to move on after almost three decades. Which seems quite self-congratulatory to the writer character and the unforgettable experience his 17-year-old self provided. almost like an ultimate revenge and closure at the cost of a life. 🙄
Nataliya wrote: "nastyako wrote: "Left Coast Justin wrote: "Nastyako wrote: Sorry but I just don't believe that those few stolen fucks in the short span of time where so impactful on his whole life. maybe I'm not r..."and remember that writer guy had another sexual experience on summer holiday when he didn't know that he won't see Thomas ever again. So it did feel like youthful trysts for our main character. Thomas is enigma to me. It's a pity he was such a plot device, his story sounds much more interesting.
So true. He went on to have other encounters and also knew that the affair with Thomas was meant to be temporary. Thomas did sound much more interesting than the sheltered wannabe writer character — but this whole resolution of his story with that ridiculous letter was so half-baked and unnecessary. There was so much potential with him to explore — but it was all wasted in pursuit of sufficiently melodramatic ending. Ugh.
Nataliya wrote: "So true. He went on to have other encounters and also knew that the affair with Thomas was meant to be temporary. Thomas did sound much more interesting than the sheltered wannabe writer character ..."oh that letter was soooooo ridiculous. Just don't do that letter and it will automatically elevate the story. That letter instantly puts this book on Nicholas Sparks shelf.
nastyako wrote: "oh that letter was soooooo ridiculous. Just don't do that letter and it will automatically elevate the story. That letter instantly puts this book on Nicholas Sparks shelf."Sadly, so true. But how would one get melodramatic self-congratulatory closure then?????
things this review + thread taught me today:- molly ringwald apparently translates books
- it's always easier than one thinks to bring up the placenta cook book
- euphemisms for dicks still make me laugh [*]
- your 40s might bring you melodramatically remembering your secretive youthful trysts (i'm already looking forward to it)
- i now want to imagine movie shots and soundtracks for every book that i read
in all seriousness, Nataliya: great review :D i'm always so entertained by what you write, even if it's for books i'll never pick up.
[*] i'm with Justin on this one. i'd take "rapidly stiffening boner" over "male sex" ANY day.
@ jade and Justin: You two just made me almost spit out soup all over my screen. I now suddenly have an overwhelming desire to watch Molly Ringwald movies all day long. Must... fight ... it... prettily... in pink...
jade wrote: "it's always easier than one thinks to bring up the placenta cook book"
It’s a special skill that goes on my resume.
always happy to assist in soup-spitting shenanigans :Dgod, don't start with the molly ringwald movies. i was already trying to sneakily look at my movie collection to see if i had the breakfast club laying around. i don't blame you one bit...
"It’s a special skill that goes on my resume."
smart move! it goes perfectly with your job ;)
jade wrote: "always happy to assist in soup-spitting shenanigans :Dgod, don't start with the molly ringwald movies. i was already trying to sneakily look at my movie collection to see if i had the breakfast c..."
I used to love Breakfast Club! Then I rewatched it as an adult and realized that I’m totally on the side of the detention-giving guy. I was ready to scream at those kids to get off my lawn. I’m getting old...
And on the 80s but not Ringwald-related note — I could never understand why nobody else thought that the lecture that the “Bueller? Bueller?” guy had a good chance to be interesting....
Nataliya wrote: "jade wrote: "always happy to assist in soup-spitting shenanigans :Dgod, don't start with the molly ringwald movies. i was already trying to sneakily look at my movie collection to see if i had th..."
oh dear, i hope that's not what's going to happen to me for a rewatch 🙈 it's definitely been a while! you're really making me want to break out all the 80s movies again. so much nostalgia and comfort films!
HA, the "bueller? bueller?" guy was absolutely hilarious. i recently watched a bueller reunion (obligatory link here; youtube vid, 45 min long) where they practically got the whole cast together again, INCLUDING the actor who played that guy. funny insight on how he played him and why :D
Audrey wrote: "I am in my 40s and rarely think about crushes and people from before my 20s."I know, right? Now remembering those fun times fondly is one thing; teenage feelings are intense and all-consuming and kinda fun. But in this book a grown man of over 40 still thought of a secret teenage fling as the happiest time in his entire life, and it was the defining thing in his life — and very melodramatically revealed, too.
nastyako wrote: "i've never seen anything with molly ringwald!"She has quite a catalogue. If you can get yourself in the rebellious teenage mindset, then Breakfast Club is the way to go. The classic ;)
how sexist is it and how much dubious consent can I expect? cause these older teen movies often age very poorly.
nastyako wrote: "how sexist is it and how much dubious consent can I expect? cause these older teen movies often age very poorly."Oh, nothing about that movie aged well. It’s so 80s! But that’s what makes it kinda fun to watch now.
Nataliya wrote: "Oh, nothing about that movie aged well. It’s so 80s! But that’s what makes it kinda fun to watch now."lol fun or cringey? 😄
nastyako wrote: "Nataliya wrote: "Oh, nothing about that movie aged well. It’s so 80s! But that’s what makes it kinda fun to watch now."lol fun or cringey? 😄"
Certainly both. As long as you don’t think about it too hard, it’s cute and fun. Drinking a bottle of wine before watching it may also help.
jade wrote: "HA, the "bueller? bueller?" guy was absolutely hilarious. i recently watched a bueller reunion "Thanks for the link, jade!
Ben Stein is an economist, and I heard he was told to just lecture on his field of expertise in as dry a manner as possible.In "Better Off Dead" it's the opposite, with the kids loving lectures and homework.
Did Molly Ringwald do anything NOT John Hughes?
Audrey wrote: "Did Molly Ringwald do anything NOT John Hughes?"The Stand, I think.
That’s funny that they equated dry and boring. Those aren’t the same. I’d rather listen to that lecture than sit through Ferris Bueller one more time — but I first watched that movie as an adult and had little tolerance for Ferris’ shenanigans.
I saw Ferris Bueller in the theater. I was 11. I thought it was hilarious then.Stein is a very smart guy, and I think he has some books out.
Audrey wrote: "I saw Ferris Bueller in the theater. I was 11. I thought it was hilarious then.Stein is a very smart guy, and I think he has some books out."
That seems like a pretty appropriate age for enjoying that movie!
Ben Stein, Trump apologist who literally wants his face on Mount Rushmore. I personally do not admire the guy.
Left Coast Justin wrote: "Ben Stein, Trump apologist who literally wants his face on Mount Rushmore. I personally do not admire the guy."Bueller guy??? Oh no! Here’s the real world ruining perfect dry boring economics lecture. The imaginary Bueller world was so much better before it intersected with our reality 😱
jade wrote: "awww shit. exposed! thanks for that info, Justin; i had no idea."My favorite boring lecture has forever been ruined. And that was my favorite moment in that movie, by the way. Ugh, real life, why must you always do this???





