s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all]'s Reviews > Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit

Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit by Jeanette Winterson
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it was amazing
bookshelves: religion, lgbt

To eat of the fruit means to leave the garden because the fruit speaks of other things, other longings.

Jeanette Winterson writes prose that seeps into you the way warm sunshine does at the final edges of winter. She has a distinct voice with a confident cadence that can seamlessly sway between realism and the fantastical or fairy tale elements, harmonizing each aspect of her storytelling into a grand orchestral narrative that in each of her books pushes boundaries and doesn’t shy away from experimentation. What’s more is it always comes across as overtly cool and collected, like some celestial being wearing an edgy jacket with “punk as fuck” scrawled on the back. In Oranges are Not the Only Fruit, Wintersons 1985 debut novel that reads like someone already deep into a celebrated writing career, this prose is put to the task of documenting a provincial pentocostal church community and Winterson’s depictions of evangelicalism is so deadpan and unironic at times it practically loops back into satire that the moments of direct criticism feel so nestled up in the narrative to make you understand how integral these dark moments are to the entirety of this lifestyle. Winterson’s use of diction and sharp imagery are as entertaining as they are direct, signifying how surreal the whole experience was to Winterson as she looks back on her own upbringing through the lens of fiction.

The thing is, much of Oranges are Not the Only Fruit is autobiographical and there are very authentic and lived emotions pulsating through every page. Like Jeanette, the young narrator of the novel, Jeanette Winterson was adopted into an evangelical community and faced ostracism for being a lesbian. This book will ring true to anyone who spent their youth at Bible camps and growing up in a church community, which, as shown here, can be tight-knit communities that use religion to validate distrust of outsiders and dominate nearly every aspect of your social and emotional life. For those who are forced out it is like losing the earth underneath your feet, an aspect Winterson examines as a way that members are kept compliant and made to act against their own true selves.

History should be a hammock for swinging and a game for playing, the way cats play.

The autobiographical inspirations acknowledged, this is not simply a memoir, and the act of fictionalizing her own experiences, as well as threading fairy tales throughout as abstract commentary on the socio-emotional underpinnings of the novel, is what gives it true power: a narrative constructed from history taps into meaning and purpose in a way a recounting of history cannot because ‘stories helped you to understand the world.’ This is something Jeanette comments on several times in the novel (the introspective segments blur Jeanette the narrator and Jeanette the author in a gleefully postmodern way):
[T]hat is the way with stories; we make them what we will. It’s a way of explaining the universe while leaving the universe unexplained, it’s a way of keeping it all alive, not boxing it into time…Very often history is a means of denying the past. Denying the past is to refuse to recognize its integrity.

To write a narrative is to fulfill the integrity of history. Fairy tales and Biblical stories, in this way, are given the same weight in Winterson novels as narratives that construct meaning. This becomes much more prominent in her following two novels, with both The Passion and Sexing the Cherry combining historical narrative with magical-realism to tell a new story from history that gives voice to the usually voiceless, and here Winterson recasts what is undoubtedly told in this particular church community as a wayward youth consumed by the Devil into a narrative that gives the supposed “sinner” the voice to show how they were wronged and abandoned. ‘We are all historians in our own way,’ Winterson writes, and she proudly affirms the powers of storytelling, both as a redemptive and retributive vessel. It is literary empowerment at its finest and teaches us ‘there is an order and a balance to be found in storytelling.’ As she writes in her memoir, Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal?, 'I believe in fiction and the power of stories because that way we speak in tongues. We are not silenced...somebody has been there for us and deep-dived the words.' Winterson has been there and this book can likely be a life raft for those who need it.

If there’s such a thing as spiritual adultery, my mother was a whore.

The novel is framed around Jeanette’s relationship with her mother and, because her mother figures herself an appendage of the Lord, the religious community she was brought up within. Adopted into the family ‘I had been brought in to join her in a tag match against the Rest of the World’ she says from the start, quickly characterizing her mother as someone who considered herself always right and any dissent to be ‘not holy’ as she frequently says. The mother is fully devoted to the church and her only interests are in expanding her devotion, which over time includes working in a religious MLM and reading books on missionary work that are revealed to be increasingly racist propaganda. It is a rigid childhood, one of prayer and routine where Jeantte’s only acquaintances are members of the church, most notably the aging Elsie who was once a young prodigy of the church and has taken a special interest in her upbringing.

Eventually, I thought, I’ll fall in love like everybody else. Then some years later, quite by mistake, I did.

Jeanette is always engaged in passing out bible tracts (you ever get one as a server that looks like a $20 bill and it says something like 'you'd be rich with Jesus' with a church address and you realize they did not tip you...fun stuff) finding new converts. Jeanette converts a young girl she meets and their private bible study sessions blossom into something more. The shame and confusion felt by knowing this is something you want and something that feels right but having been brought up to deny it and demonize it is a really uncomfortable maelstrom of emotions to be in. It can often turn into self-hatred or denial, and as much as one is their own worst critic, one can be their own worst judge, jury and jailer. ‘It is not the one thing nor the other that leads to madness, but the space in between them,’ she comments, and all the internal struggle of denying oneself who you are and being told you are a sinner for simply being yourself is a hellish place to be in between the major events such as Jeanette being caught and facing the public exorcism from the Pastor.

Winterson uses the condemnation of her being a lesbian to look at how aversion to LGBTQ+ folks is often an aspect of patriarchy enforced by misogyny to separate anyone who is not white, heteronormative male. ‘The real problem, it seemed,’ Jeanette observes during her second round of punishment for being found out with another woman, ‘was going against the teachings of St. Paul, and allowing women power in the church.’ While initially it was assumed her ‘going astray’ came from outside influences such as public school (a ‘breeding ground’ for sin, her mother claims), the church elders get right into it and announce that women being allowed to preach opens up a weakness for the Devil to exploit. Jeanette understands then that the church powers exist to ensure ‘the message belonged to the men.’ Reading this novel written in 1985 England still resonates in 2022 America where this same anti-LGBT rhetroic is increasingly used as fundraising grifting for politicians. What Jeanette finds confusing, however, is the insistence that her ‘unnatural passions’ are ‘aping men.’ To sleep with a woman, it is implied, is only something a man can do.

There are women in the world. There are men in the world. And there are beasts. What do you do if you marry a beast?

Much of this is tied into the ways Winterson examines how girls are socialized into submission, doubling down on the repressive nature of the church community for those who are women. ‘I was a little girl, ergo, I was sweet,’ is an early lesson she learns from a lecherous shopkeeper who gives her candies, ‘and here were sweets to prove it.’ It’s a sort of purity culture that is certainly present in many evangelical communities that often teaches girls they should be compliant and submit to men. When Jeanette complains her uncle hurts her by rubbing his beard stubble on her face, she is told that he didn’t hurt her, but that it was ‘just a bit of love.’ She demonstrates the early childhood lessons that a man can harm her and still call it love, all aimed at keeping women subservient in a patriarchal culture. Melanie, Jeanette’s first lover, is thought to be recovered from her sins when she marries a man and devotes her life to having children, to which Jeanette observes she appears docile and ‘serene to the point of being bovine’ with all the spark that drew her to Melanie now snuffed out. Winteron also examines the double standards in judgment on gender biases. She juxtaposes Jeanette’s harmless love with consenting a peer, for which only she suffers consequences that upend her life, to the sexual transgressions and embezzelment of the pastor in the MLM, which harms many people and causes financial strains for the community. While Jeanette faces public humiliation and punishment, this man has people rally to cover his debts and even provide him a paid vacation. The double standard is readily apparent.

I peeled it to comfort myself, and seeing me a little calmer, everyone glanced at one another and went away.

Somehow I’ve gotten this far in thinking about the novel without addressing oranges, which make for a multifaceted metaphor throughout the book. The mother only gives Jeanette oranges to eat, and the gift of an orange is often in place of emotional support, a treat meant to pacify but not heal. Late in the novel when she stands accused by her mother and her pastor, she offers them an orange, much to their confusion. It is a brief but brilliant moment where she puts their own symbol back in their face to express the inadequacy of their support.Late in the novel the mother eventually decides that ‘oranges are not the only fruit’ when it is advantageous to her missionary aims, which reads as ironic when her refusal to understand that heterosexuality is not the only path chased away the member of her flock most dear to her.

It is not the one thing nor the other that leads to madness, but the space in between them.

The orange also appears as a demon Jeanette see’s during times of emotional stress, a demon that asserts demons are not bad, just a change in their life and tells her she can keep her demons and live a difficult life—but one that may be worth the difficulty—while reminding her that her sexuality is normal and being ‘different’ doesn't mean being bad. ‘Everyone has a demon,’ they tell her, ‘but not everyone knows how to make use of it.’ That it is a demo who pushes for self-acceptance and finding autonomy in her life is amusingly scandalous, as it is something conjured from the evangelical teachings yet also in opposition to them. The demon will travel everywhere with her, a reminder that the past follows us no matter what, but that we can survive it because ‘it was not judgment day but another morning.

What truly brings this book together are the interspersed fairy tales that season the novel and serve as commentary on the story while being fully immersive experiences on their own. The final tale of Winnet, intertwined with the story of Sir Percival, creates a way to grasp Jeanette’s predicament that opens up such an emotional resonance that feels like an earthquake rather than the tremor of discomfort in the aspects of realism. Winnet’s tale briefly retells the novel through fantastical metaphor and leaves us with the feeling of dread with the wizard’s string tied around her that explains the Jeanette’s feeling of being unable to fully escape her mother’s control. If anything, this book is a testament to storytelling on multiple levels.

She must find a boat and sail in it. No guarantee of shore. Only a conviction that what she wanted could exist, if she dared to find it.

Reading Winterson, I feel understood. I’ve had this with other authors but Winterson reaches into my being and polishes elements I didn’t think anyone else could know about. Which is part of the reason we all read, right? To discover we are not alone, that someone empathizes, that someone can put into words things you feel but thought otherwise ineffable. Oranges are Not the Only Fruit is a book that I could see having a huge impact on those who escaped similar situations, or could find themselves in this novel as a compass for where to go next. This book is actually quite funny and warm, despite the difficult topics, and it will pluck every emotional string you have in ways that will surprise you. Most importantly, this book gives hope. A harrowing debut that reads like a seasoned veteran of letters, Oranges are Not the Only Fruit is a must-read.

5/5

I still don't think of God as my betrayer. The servants of God, yes, but servants by their very nature betray. I miss God who was my friend. I don't even know if God exists, but I do know that if God is your emotional role model, very few human relationships will match up to it.
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Reading Progress

April 17, 2022 – Started Reading
April 17, 2022 – Shelved
April 17, 2022 –
page 55
31.25% "The Winterson obsession continues"
April 22, 2022 – Shelved as: religion
April 22, 2022 – Shelved as: lgbt
April 22, 2022 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 110 (110 new)


Cecily I like the fact you're reading this and Why be Happy in such quick succession. I can't wait to see how you compare them. (I had years between them, but thought the latter was even better by a considerable margin.) Meanwhile, I hope you continue to feel understood by her.


John Mauro Thank you for this wonderfully comprehensive and insightful review!


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Cecily wrote: "I like the fact you're reading this and Why be Happy in such quick succession. I can't wait to see how you compare them. (I had years between them, but thought the latter was even better by a consi..."

Me too, it really unlocks a lot of meaning into the book and it's cool to read her reflect back on it. I originally had some quotes from the first chapter included in here to examine ideas but then cut them thinking maybe I'd let this stand on its own? Not sure, might add some back in because it came out pretty choppy with the edit ha. But can't wait to finish it! She's become a huge favorite, already have Written on the Body queued up to read next!


Bookish Bethany Ahh I'm obsessed with this book! A masterpiece!


hope h. i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fantastic time reading it and definitely had that "feeling understood" experience. it's amazing how universal some experiences are and how deeply you can connect with a story that's not your own. one of my favorite parts of the book was the part you mentioned where the shopkeeper gives her candies - i really love the line "that day i had almost strangled my dog with rage, and been dragged from the house by a desperate mother. sweet i was not." it's one of those little things that makes the story feel so real to me. i think every woman or person who is perceived as a woman has experienced that like, assumed docility? winterson does such a great job of describing that experience of people constantly assuming you are sweet, docile, good-natured, harmless, etc - and also the flip side where if you step outside of that (by being gay, for example) you become irredeemable and literally tainted by the devil. (i LOVE the orange demon. another one of my favorite parts of the book haha) but yeah that attitude is SO prevalent in churches and she described it so perfectly. and like, not only that but she also encapsulates complicated family relationships and losing your religion and exploring your sexuality - like she hits on so many difficult, complex topics in such a short book but it never feels shallow, which i think is really impressive!


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] John wrote: "Thank you for this wonderfully comprehensive and insightful review!"

Thank you so much, glad you enjoyed :)


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Bookish Bethany wrote: "Ahh I'm obsessed with this book! A masterpiece!"

Yes! Glad you love it as well :) I can’t stop reading Winterson, just obsessed now haha


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fantastic time reading it and definitely had that "feeling understood" experience. it's amazing how univ..."

Thank you! Yea, that is a great point how something that is such a singular experience can become a universal message through literature. She talks about it quite a bit in her memoir about how she had to fictionalize a story that could be survived instead of a collection of facts with no way out (I guess Elsie was completely invented for the book, she says her own actual experience was much more lonely but the embroidery part is true).

And true, it’s amazing how many pretty complex ideas are all in here. It definitely says something about Society that this is nearly 40 years old and still feels like it could be written about present day, especially with all the elements of misogyny and And control by isolation. And YES! That line is great, isnt it in response to being told “little girls are sweet?” I hate so much all the “groomer” propaganda being thrown around lately that feels so much like projection when people have been shouting at those same people for repression and gaslighting being done as she shows here. Just wild. Really glad you enjoyed this one, I definitely read it based on your recommendation!


hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fantastic time reading it and definitely had that "feeling understood" experience. it's ama..."

oh man, that is a rough quote. im glad she was able to use writing to create a bit more of a hopeful and compassionate story for herself. I imagine it must have been painful to have to immerse yourself in those kinds of memories long enough to not only write a fiction book based on it but also a memoir.

YEAH lol it's definitely kind of sad that it's so relatable even 40 years later - but comforting at the same time, to see such a great critique of those issues that are still so prevalent today.


Cecily I love the way Winterson is seeping into your writing like the sharp-sweet juice of an orange - but I'm not suggesting you're a devil!

I think you'll enjoy Why be Happy even more, in part because it's more reflective about the power of language and literature (as well as being more up to date).

I just found a copy of The PowerBook, and your enthusiasm for her has pushed it up my list. Wintersoon time...


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fantastic time reading it and definitely had that "feeling understood" ..."

The first chapter of the memoir is entirely around the conversation she had with her mother when the book was published, worth reading (and on hoopla).

Yeah, I was thinking about that reading this how if it came out completely as is today there would be a huge uproar about it. I like your perspective about how it’s comforting to see the criticisms still ongoing and at least being talked about. I remember reading Woolf’s Mrs. Dalloway for The first time and being like “so Just nobody mentioned that the first half of this book is about validating lesbian relationships?” and realizing how often even well known texts just had those elements intentionally ignored in mass media. It certainly paved the way for more direct discussions in books now though.

Also I just really want to run into some former lit major that has a orange demon tattoo because of this book. I’ve gotta believe that is out there somewhere. If I ever write a novel I’m including that on a character for those in the know haha


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Cecily wrote: "I love the way Winterson is seeping into your writing like the sharp-sweet juice of an orange - but I'm not suggesting you're a devil!

I think you'll enjoy Why be Happy even more, in part because..."


Hurrah, we should all be reading Winterson haha. I’ve been basically handing copies to friends lately and just ordered in half of her books to the bookstore as my newest “staff pick”.

Yea, I’m just starting to get into that a bit more with her. I really love her perspectives on literature as a voice that can embody silence, what was the line…something about how words are how we vocalize silence and give it a voice? Excited to read more. Have you read Frankissstein: A Love Story yet? I’m curious on that one and really liked her answers about it in a fairly recent interview.


Cecily s.penkevich wrote: "Have you read Frankissstein: A Love Story yet?..."

No, not yet. I'm a little wary because I didn't enjoy The Gap of Time as much as others of hers, so I fear she's not at her best when heavily inspired by another author. Hopefully you'll read it and write a review that makes it easy for me to make an informed choice!


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Cecily wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "Have you read Frankissstein: A Love Story yet?..."

No, not yet. I'm a little wary because I didn't enjoy The Gap of Time as much as others of hers, so I fear sh..."


Oh Yea that’s her take on Shakespeare right? I’ve heard mixed things on that as well. Hmmm Maybe I’ll jump to that one soon then, I kind of love the title while also thinking it’s terrible haha. Mostly I think it rules she just went for it.


Abyssdancer (Hanging in there!) Beautiful review … i feel cheated that in all the literature and gender studies I took as a college student, I never heard of this author … I feel the need to download this book immediately and experience its honesty … I find it so tragic that so many LGBT people are forced to choose between religion and their sexuality, without ever being allowed to have both because of deviant interpretations of God’s word … it seems like such important life experiences like religiosity or the freedom of sexual expression are lost by artificial choices created by religious leaders and imposed by religious communities …


Cecily s.penkevich wrote: "Oh Yea that’s her take on Shakespeare right?..."

Yes, The Gap of Time is a riff on The Winter's Tale. It helps to be familiar with the Bard, whether before or after. She modernises it in a clever and Wintersonian way, emphasising her favoured themes. Nevertheless, she has enough imagination not to lean on the greats, imo.


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Abyssdancer wrote: "Beautiful review … i feel cheated that in all the literature and gender studies I took as a college student, I never heard of this author … I feel the need to download this book immediately and exp..."

Oooo please do i think you would love it! Really any of her books, I’ve now read her first three and all of them are 5 stars for me (I still think The Passion is my favorite but that was also i felt really close to that one). I think she might have had a bigger following in the UK because I too am surprised she’s never really come up anywhere other than when I see lists about feminist retellings of fairy tales (which is a big part of her work but I wouldn’t say the main focus?)

And YES, that is a huge issue in West Michigan for sure. I’ve had so many friends tell me that in school (religious private school is huge here, there’s so many of them) for sex Ed the girls were all told to take a piece of tape and stick it to objects over and over and see how the stickiness went away and then were told that it was a metaphor for if women have sexual feelings for more than one man…. Just fucked up especially because it seems to only be something that was taught to women and not the boys. I’m so glad there are books like this to reach the people who need them and help those outside of it understand. And thanks again!


message 18: by Cecily (last edited Apr 23, 2022 12:28PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Cecily s.penkevich wrote: "I think she might have had a bigger following in the UK because I too am surprised she’s never really come up anywhere other than when I see lists about feminist retellings of fairy tales (which is a big part of her work but I wouldn’t say the main focus?)..."

She rose to prominence because of the TV adaptation of Oranges, and she's a regular on thoughtful TV and radio discussions here, so she's quite well known - even among those who haven't read her!

Yes, fairy tales, mythology, Bible stories, Shakespeare are all key to her writing. She says so explicitly, especially in Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal?. However, loss, abandonment, found family, and adoption are more fundamental to her work, imo, along with freedom of sex, sexuality, and gender.


Cecily s.penkevich wrote: "... for sex Ed the girls were all told to take a piece of tape and stick it to objects over and over and see how the stickiness went away and then were told that it was a metaphor for if women have sexual feelings for more than one man…. Just fucked up especially because it seems to only be something that was taught to women and not the boys...."

Yikes, that is awful in so many ways. It's in the same vein as this, which I saw today:
reddit [dot] com/r/NotHowGirlsWork/comments/t7sm5m/yeah_thats_a_strange_clit/
It's a picture of three cross-sections of a fish, where the body is different diameters, and the text says how a woman's "clit" [sic] gets bigger for each man she has sex with.


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Cecily wrote: Yes, The Gap of Time is a riff on The Winter's Tale. It helps to be familiar with the Bard, whethe..."

Ah Yea i should probably revisit Winters Tale before I read that one. Isn’t Weight also a retelling? I did find she just put out a Hansel and Gretel retelling complete with illustrations that I’ve decided to order though, seems something at least worth having on the shelf haha.

She rose to prominence because of the TV adaptation of Oranges, and she's a regular on thoughtful TV

Oh awesome i didn’t realize there was an adaptation! I need to watch that (just googled and saw the fairy tale scenes aren’t in it though). Well now in honor of Jeanette in Oranges I will be a Winterson missionary here and spread her works to everyone haha. Our library actually has quite a few, including Art and Lies which Im excited to get to because Sappho is in it.

Yikes, that is awful in so many ways. It's in the same vein as this, which I saw today:

Ooooof why is that suddenly a thing again? Just the other day I came across a lot of people mocking some guy who wrote a long piece making a similar claim to talk about “the importance of virginity” and I thought “Isnt this 2022…” Seems like books like this are just as important now as when they first were written. Conveniently it isn’t on anyone’s radar who are pushing the book bannings in the US…


message 21: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fantastic time reading it and definitely had that "feeling..."

I'll definitely check that out! i really want to read her whole memoir eventually, though I'll probably just take it a chapter at a time since it's pretty intense. it sounds like it's worth it though.

yess it's amazing how much people will just gloss over or ignore or refuse to talk about in classic books. kinda like the whole "historians will say they were best friends" thing lmao. though it is always lovely to read something like that and have that realization of "oh, there have always been people like me." very comforting!

DUDE an orange demon tattoo would be so good!! god I hope someone out there has one. and that would be such an awesome reference in a novel!


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fantastic time reading it and definite..."

Definitely intense. Sexing the Cherry is a better next step, I keep thinking about that book and how bonkers it is in an awesome way. I was walking my dogs earlier and thinking about how I'd do it as a film with Florence + the Machine as the natural choice of a soundtrack. I really hope we get Heaven is Here live, that seems like that one would be really cool live.

And right!? Like that HAS to be a tattoo somewhere, it's too good not to be. I've been seriously considering getting the gender fluid character from her book The Passion as my next tattoo, that or something Le Guin related, because apparently all my tattoos have to be from favorite books.

OH! Have you heard the song Sappho by delian? It opens with a joke about historians "knowing the true value of friendship" before being a song about being Sappho's lover. But yes, so comforting.

Did you have to work this weekend at all?


message 23: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fantastic time reading it..."

ok so i read the first chapter of the memoir and like. definitely definitely worth reading but holy shit. the "unhappy families are conspiracies of silence" part made me put my phone down for a second to stare at the ceiling. the way she words things is incredible

i'm almost done with sexing the cherry! i'm liking it a lot, not quite as much as i liked oranges but it's definitely super fun. the part about the twelve dancing princesses was AMAZING. i also really liked the section where she talks about time - especially the bit about the decay of our bodies surprising us and how there's a level of separation we feel from our bodies. really good stuff! florence would be a great choice for the soundtrack (i feel like some of her music videos have similar vibes to the book), and also i feel like some glass animals songs could fit the vibes (especially from the how to be a human being album).

if we get heaven is here live i will ASCEND. i cannot imagine how powerful that would be live, the energy would be amazing! i'm also hoping for my love live! her vocals in that one are so good, and i've been blasting it since it came out haha

those both sound like super cool concepts for tattoos! you should get them - although i may be biased lol, i am a big proponent of getting as many tattoos as possible. it's just such a cool artform and such a cool way to commemorate things you love!

and ok i hadn't heard that song before but i just listened to it and it's so good haha, i love the intro

and yeah, i worked today! (technically yesterday? saturday. i worked saturday hfdsnfl) i got to spend my lunch outside though so i'm counting that as a win


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had such a fanta..."

So like my second week as a page I ate outside in the moat and didn’t realize the door locked behind me and scaled the wall to get out…it was all on camera haha.

But YES! Isn’t it intense? That line about how words give voice to silence…whew. I think I love her for her ideas of literature and writing as much as on gender and other concepts. Sorry I’ve basically forced you to read her haha, I needed a buddy for this journey! But YEAH that 12 Dancing Princess part blew me away, especially the Rapunzel retelling. I kind of love how…punk she is? Like she doesn’t give a fuck, that whole revenge murder scene was just bold and bonkers in the best way. There’s this really great Irish animated family film called Wolf Walkers where they make Cromwell the villain and just murder his ass as if it was historical fact and that’s the vibes this book gives me haha (i think you’d like it, the art is amazing and It’s definitely asking for you to interpret it as a queer story).

Oh yea how many tattoos do you have? I often tell people my Virginia Woolf tattoo is my grandmother or my mom depending on the day ha


message 25: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad you enjoyed it - i had..."

haha oh no! i love that you went straight for scaling the wall, i would've done the exact same thing tbh. i just walked down to the park yesterday so i managed to avoid that fate (although having to do the little white person half-jog across the road is invariably humiliating)

YEAH that line was amazing!! and same, i'm really enjoying her thoughts on time and writing and such. also no worries lol, i'm genuinely enjoying reading her work, and it's nice to have someone reading it at the same time so i can infodump about it haha (i also told my sibling about oranges are not the only fruit and now they want to read it, so like, the cycle continues)

the rapunzel retelling was fantastic. i also really liked the one where her husband constantly compares her to a falcon so she just rips his open and tears out his liver. it's so good! she is very punk, that's a good word for it. i love how unapologetically unhinged some parts of the book are, especially that one revenge murder scene lmao

i remember you mentioning wolf walkers! i didn't realize it was made by the same person that did secret of kells, have you seen that one? it's such a cool and distinctive art style. i'll have to check that out sometime!

i have two tattoos so far! (and hopefully i'll have one or two more before next year haha) and i have a giant list of everything i want to eventually get, if only they weren't so expensive haha. there are a bunch of really cool artists in the us i follow but lately i've been really into engraving/woodcut style tattoos and i swear all of the best ones are in germany? someday i'll have to just make a tattoo/museum trip to europe lol
and that's amazing haha. literary tattoos are very cool! how many do you have?


message 26: by s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] (last edited Apr 24, 2022 10:46AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one! i'm glad yo..."

Oh yea Kells is great! I liked Song of the Sea as well too, but anything fairy tale tends to win with me haha.
And YES, spread the word on Winterson haha. Im glad we have a bunch on the shelf, I kind of want to read that newest one that is about trans-humanism in the future but somehow also about Dr Frankenstein? She definitely just goes for it on ideas.

I love the Falcon part! What was the line, about becoming what they see you as or something?

I had to look up woodcut tattoos and those rule. Huh, I don’t know why but that seems to make total sense Germany would be a hotspot for tattoo artists. Good idea, you can commemorate each place with ink ha. I have four at the moment but have been really wanting another. I think this happens every year when I switch to short sleeves and remember oh yes I have tattoos haha


message 27: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "i've been looking forward to your review of this one..."

nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have you watched our flag means death? I've been watching it this weekend and I am obsessed lol, pretty much anything taika waititi makes is gold.

oh yeah I saw that one! it looks super interesting, I love how she just has these absolutely wild ideas and just goes for it. i really want to check out art and lies, the one with Sappho as a character? it looks so good

aren't they amazing? im a huge fan of billybernert on instagram's work. if you scroll down his page a bit, he did this one illustration of a guy impaling himself on a sword and im obsessed with it, I'd love to get that it tattooed. i also love autvmn_ink's style so much. they're also on Instagram, and they do some really awesome folklore inspired pieces! (there's actually also a weird amount of really good tattoo artists in france and italy as well)
and that's awesome! I get what you mean, it's amazing how quickly you can just forget they're there. I have one on the back of my arm and I just forget about it until I look in the mirror and I'm like oh rightt, I forgot I just have that permanently now


message 28: by Bavo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bavo Love this review! My favourite chapter of Oranges is the Deuteronomy one, which is such assured writing and thinking it's hard to believe it was a debut. Also, the final fairytale with the string is so poignant... I just love Oranges a lot.

One of my favourite lines in Why Be Happy is how for her mother life is a pre-death experience, and also the cosmic dustbin. When Jeanette ask if the lid is open, it just speaks to the love of life she has (even against all the odds).

Frankisstein is a great read and a wild ride. Proper hilarious too. Something has shifted in her most recent work though; I think it has to do with the writing of Why Be Happy. Something has been laid to rest there, or finally dealt with. I don't have the words yet to explain it.

If you're enjoying Why Be Happy, a reading from the memoir in the Sydney Opera House is to be found on YouTube. She talks about the writing of it, and all things poetry and literature. She's a magnificent public speaker - the missionary training has not been for nought!


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have you watched our flag means death..."

Our Flag Means Death is GREAT! Jen told me about it last week and I watched it all in two sittings so we've been telling everyone in ILL to watch it haha. Waititi is amazing, I love how oddly wholesome that show is while also being randomly super violent haha. I very rarely actually watch shows but watched both that and all of Heartstopper last week.

ANd thank you, I will check them out on instagram. I really want to see this impaling one haha (now I'm just picturing it as the officer in the start of Our Flag). But yes! I have one on my back I forget about and once a year catch in a mirror and have a brief moment of panic thinking its a spider or something


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Bavo wrote: "Love this review! My favourite chapter of Oranges is the Deuteronomy one, which is such assured writing and thinking it's hard to believe it was a debut. Also, the final fairytale with the string i..."

Thank you so much! Yea, it is amazing this was a debut right? And she was 25 I think? Just amazing talent right from the start. Ooo, thank you, I can't wait to look up that reading. I've read a few interviews with her now and am always so impressed with how well crafted her responses can be.

And that makes sense, I'm not terribly far into Why Be Happy but I can see how it is...closing the chapter on some ideas like you say. Her discussions on writing in it are amazing, I was reading the library copy but realizing I needed to own it because theres so many good lines I'm definitely going to want to reference later.

Thanks again!


message 31: by Pablito (new) - added it

Pablito Thank you for caring so much about the written word to write this review of Winterson. You are a gift to our reading community and it's a privilege to follow you on GoodReads.


message 32: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have you watched our flag means death..."

Our Flag Means Death is GREAT! Jen told me abou..."


YES okay i'm so glad you've seen it, i need to talk to someone about it! i love the juxtaposition of wholesome, comedy, and graphic violence lol, it's so good. and like, it's so refreshing to see gay characters having character development and going on adventures and falling in love rather than the entire storyline being about homophobia. (also i love jim so much. they're wonderful)
yeah, same here - i don't watch movies or shows all that often but this one was definitely worth it! i'm definitely adding what we do in the shadows to my watchlist though, waititi did such a great job with gay pirates that i'm very interested in his take on gay vampires
how was the heartstopper show btw? i've heard some good things about it.

ok he's impaled through the chest rather than the eye but aside from that, he is actually posed like he just fell on his sword and is sort of vaguely upset about it hsdnfldk
and yeah i can see how that would be pretty panic inducing haha
i've considered getting a centipede tattoo because they look so cool but i think it would just scare the shit out of me every time i saw it


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Pablito wrote: "Thank you for caring so much about the written word to write this review of Winterson. You are a gift to our reading community and it's a privilege to follow you on GoodReads."

Wow thank you so much, that means a lot to hear :)
Glad you enjoyed the review, I’m in a bit of a Winterson obsession


message 34: by s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] (last edited Apr 26, 2022 01:08AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have you watched our flag means death..."

Our Flag Means Death is GRE..."


Ooooo yes, we must discuss! I really loved that aspect too, I like seeing LGBT relationship allowed to simply exist, normalized into the plot without it having to be the primary focus of those characters. Have you finished it because I NEED there to be a second season after that finale haha. I really loved What We Do in the Shadows but I've only seen the film version and not the show so far (Rhys Darby--"Stede Bonnet"--plays the leader of a pack of werewolves in it too). And I really enjoyed Heartstopper. It's so adorable and I thought they did an excellent job. The casting is great too, and it was nice to see them actually fill the role of a trans character with someone who is actually trans. Why has that been so hard for so many production companies!?

I found the tattoo on instagram and that is indeed really awesome! A centipede would be cool too but yes, I can see that setting yourself up for some scares haha.


message 35: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have you watched our flag means death..."

Our Flag Means..."


yeah, i finished it! the finale was so good, i desperately need a second season. poor blackbeard is going through the worst and possibly first breakup of his life lol, although poor lucius did NOT deserve what he got. i'm fond of the fan theory that he survived and is just hiding in secret passages in the ship like a rat hsfndslj

yeah, i just watched the wwdits movie recently and i really liked it! i've heard the show is very good too, so i'm excited to check it out. (and i did not at all realize that the werewolf was rhys darby, i did not recognize him with that haircut haha)

ooh okay i was actually wondering if heartstopper would go with a trans actress for elle! that's relieving to hear. it's so annoying how many shows will just go with a cis actor when there's so many amazing trans actors out there who are already underrepresented in the industry.


message 36: by Mary (new) - added it

Mary You write such beautiful reviews! I always look forward to reading them!


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have you watched our flag means death..."

She’s one of the best parts of the show too, it made me really happy. I hope that one has a second season quickly as well haha. And yeaaaa I choose to believe Lucius will somehow make it out. I think the best part of comedies is how easily they could make that happen with just one laugh line. And just as soon as I finally got used to Waititi with a beard…it’s gone haha

“We are werewolves not swear-wolves” is one of my favorite lines in that movie i say it all the time haha


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] Mary wrote: "You write such beautiful reviews! I always look forward to reading them!"

Thank you so much :) that makes my day


message 39: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have you watched our fla..."

that's awesome! i really loved her in the books too, she was wonderful. and yeah, i would actually be more surprised if they legitimately killed lucius off. i love the comedy rules where like, the characters can just row off into the ocean and find the boat they're looking for within two days lol
and yeah the beard definitely took some getting used to - it's very much a Look though. (and very gender, like yes, that's the ideal presentation) i did enjoy the immediately post-breakup look with no beard + robe though, it was giving strong "art teacher day drinking on a thursday morning" vibes

yess that line is so good haha, there were so many good one-liners in that movie


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrelated but have..."

"art teacher day drinking on a thursday morning" vibes Is really all I want to present as from now on haha.
So how about that leopard in the final episode. They apparently did not have a big CGI budget haha. I sort of loved how well they made do with what they had to work with in that show. Some parts looked really great and others it was kind of adorable how obvious it was just them in a row boat in a pool


message 41: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my watch list. oh, unrel..."

it's a pretty fantastic aesthetic! and yeahh the leopard was not good at all fhdsnfljk it was almost uncanny valley at that point. i do feel like the bad cgi moments added to the atmosphere of the show though, like it worked because it was a comedy? the "row boat in a pool" moments were kind of hilarious


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of the sea to my w..."

TRUE, like you can sort of play anything off in a comedy and sometimes it just makes it better that way. Did you ever watch Flight of the Conchords? Stede is the band manager in that and the super cheesiness of the music videos make it so much funnier (Taika wrote and directed a few episodes I think?)


message 43: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "nice!! I'll have to add wolf watchers and song of th..."

it does! like if they had perfect cgi it would be cool but it would be a different vibe from what we actually got. and no, i haven't seen it, but it sounds fun! i always forget how much stuff taika has actually done.


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "it does! like if they had perfect cgi it would be cool but it would be a different vibe from what we actually go..."

I am constantly realizing hes done way more than I knew about. Didn't know Eagle vs Shark was him until last week. What an absolute gem of a creative.


message 45: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "it does! like if they had perfect cgi it would be cool but it would be a different vibe from what we actually go..."

I am constantly realizing hes done way more than I knew about. Did..."


he's amazing! im so excited for thor: love and thunder this summer - im not much of a marvel fan anymore but I know he's going to do something great with it.


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "it does! like if they had perfect cgi it would be cool but it would be a different vibe from what we actually go..."

I am constantly realizing hes done way more th..."


Oooo yes he did some cool stuff with the last one. And probably a lot of my favorite parts in Mandalorian. Unpopular admission but I actually haven’t watched much Marvel. Like at all haha (I did see that Thor because of Taika though) and now I’m so far behind it’s like ehhhh I’ll just listen to everyone at work tell me about it and call it good enough haha


message 47: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "it does! like if they had perfect cgi it would be cool but it would be a different vibe from what we actually go..."

I am constantly realizing hes don..."


ok and i didn't even realize he worked on the mandalorian! maybe i'll actually have to watch it now haha. and yeahh that's fair - it's such a huge time commitment to catch up on everything and like, it drags after a while because they keep trying to make each movie bigger and more dramatic than the last. it just kind of falls flat at this point. i tried to watch the black widow movie recently bc i've literally been hoping they would make one since i was 12 and it was SO BAD that i had to skip through most of it :(


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "it does! like if they had perfect cgi it would be cool but it would be a different vibe from what we actually go..."

I am constant..."


Oh bummer, but yea I heard that one wasn’t very well received. And that makes sense, they are pretty long and honestly action sequences don’t do that much for me? Like it’s cool and fun but like you said it’s just sort of exhausting? It sounds like the mini series are doing cool things though, I do like the ideas of experimenting with time and multiverse and stuff. Have you ever read This Is How You Lose the Time War? It’s like…sapphic multiverse told through letters? Pretty amazing.


message 49: by hope (new) - rated it 5 stars

hope h. s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "it does! like if they had perfect cgi it would be cool but it would be a different vibe from what we actually go..."

..."


yeah, i would not recommend it lol. pretty much no redeeming qualities? and yeah that's fair! i usually enjoy action sequences and they've even gotten exhausting for me. at this point i feel like the only people really keeping up with the movies are the die-hard marvel fans. i have heard good things about the miniseries though, a couple of friends have said they really enjoyed them. i might have to check them out eventually!

and i actually have it on my bookshelf rn! my sibling lent it to me ages ago, i just haven't gotten around to reading it yet. it sounds like exactly my thing, though. i love that it's told through letters, it's such a cool format!


s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all] hope wrote: "yeah, i would not recommend it lol. pretty much no redeeming qualities? and yeah that's fair! i usually enjoy action sequences..."

Ha I will continue to skip that then! I hear really good things about the new Oscar Isaac one, and that it’s fairly separate from the rest? Perhaps I’ll watch that.

Oooo yes, I’d be interested to hear what you think of that one! It’s really unique and inventive. I think there is a miniseries coming of it but I heard that a few years back now and haven’t seen anything about it since.


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