Sign in with Facebook
Lisa's Reviews > Faust, First Part
Faust, First Part
by
by
I reread Faust yesterday, and it left me wondering ... pondering ... again ... as so often!
Why don't we talk more about Gretchen? And I mean Gretchen as a subject, not as a toy to be used by Faust and Mephistopheles in their joint midlife crisis distractive game?
Why don't we talk more about the amazing achievements of the modern world, in which a brother like Valentin wouldn't get to call his sister a whore for having a lover? Why don't we talk more about the bliss of choice? Gretchen today could have her dark affair with a middle-aged charismatic narcissist and then raise a child on her own. She doesn't have to die (or marry to become Dorothy to Casauban or Effi to Innstetten either!). Let us celebrate the end of Gretchen's life as a social evil and the beginning of Gretchen as a sexual being without guilt, shame and doom? The world will never be free from Faustian egomaniacs, but they may face women who speak up and expect more than Gretchen ever could for herself. Gretchen lived too early, too much.
Just some thoughts on reading Faust yet again!
This is not a review. More a continued discussion with myself on a play that keeps challenging me since high school.
I cannot attempt to write a review of Goethe's Faust. It is a much too personal experience, growing with each time I reread it. Since high school, I have been thinking at least five times:
"This is the perfect Goethe moment, his work is written for ME, NOW, it can't get any better, deeper, or any more satisfying."
Well, apparently it can. After maybe three or four years, I picked up Faust again, and found that I had finally grown up enough to identify with his most famous quote, the one I had reverently learned by heart as a student.
Banging my head against the wall today while marking papers, trying to figure out how to explain the developments in the world to my own children and the adolescents I am in charge of, I looked up and literally felt Mephisto's presence in the room. Unable to get rid of the feeling, I looked at my shelf with my all time favourites, picked up my Faust, with its almost broken spine, and opened it to read ...
... my own life ...
...the struggle to find answers, the longing for knowledge and understanding, the futile hope that my teaching will make a difference, and the creepy, scary thought that it might all be meaningless, because the majority of our planet is sold, body and soul, to devilish shallowness and indifference.
... It almost sets my heart burning ...
"Now here I am, a fool for sure!
No wiser than I was before:
Master, Doctor’s what they call me,
And I’ve been ten years, already,
Crosswise, arcing, to and fro,
Leading my students by the nose,
And see that we can know - nothing!
It almost sets my heart burning."
"Da steh ich nun, ich armer Tor!
Und bin so klug als wie zuvor;
Heiße Magister, heiße Doktor gar
Und ziehe schon an die zehen Jahr
Herauf, herab und quer und krumm
Meine Schüler an der Nase herum –
Und sehe, daß wir nichts wissen können!
Das will mir schier das Herz verbrennen."
As hopeless as the message and the rest of the Faust plot is, it gave me solace to share this moment, yet again, with the master of masters, Goethe.
Now here I am, a fool for sure!
Why don't we talk more about Gretchen? And I mean Gretchen as a subject, not as a toy to be used by Faust and Mephistopheles in their joint midlife crisis distractive game?
Why don't we talk more about the amazing achievements of the modern world, in which a brother like Valentin wouldn't get to call his sister a whore for having a lover? Why don't we talk more about the bliss of choice? Gretchen today could have her dark affair with a middle-aged charismatic narcissist and then raise a child on her own. She doesn't have to die (or marry to become Dorothy to Casauban or Effi to Innstetten either!). Let us celebrate the end of Gretchen's life as a social evil and the beginning of Gretchen as a sexual being without guilt, shame and doom? The world will never be free from Faustian egomaniacs, but they may face women who speak up and expect more than Gretchen ever could for herself. Gretchen lived too early, too much.
Just some thoughts on reading Faust yet again!
This is not a review. More a continued discussion with myself on a play that keeps challenging me since high school.
I cannot attempt to write a review of Goethe's Faust. It is a much too personal experience, growing with each time I reread it. Since high school, I have been thinking at least five times:
"This is the perfect Goethe moment, his work is written for ME, NOW, it can't get any better, deeper, or any more satisfying."
Well, apparently it can. After maybe three or four years, I picked up Faust again, and found that I had finally grown up enough to identify with his most famous quote, the one I had reverently learned by heart as a student.
Banging my head against the wall today while marking papers, trying to figure out how to explain the developments in the world to my own children and the adolescents I am in charge of, I looked up and literally felt Mephisto's presence in the room. Unable to get rid of the feeling, I looked at my shelf with my all time favourites, picked up my Faust, with its almost broken spine, and opened it to read ...
... my own life ...
...the struggle to find answers, the longing for knowledge and understanding, the futile hope that my teaching will make a difference, and the creepy, scary thought that it might all be meaningless, because the majority of our planet is sold, body and soul, to devilish shallowness and indifference.
... It almost sets my heart burning ...
"Now here I am, a fool for sure!
No wiser than I was before:
Master, Doctor’s what they call me,
And I’ve been ten years, already,
Crosswise, arcing, to and fro,
Leading my students by the nose,
And see that we can know - nothing!
It almost sets my heart burning."
"Da steh ich nun, ich armer Tor!
Und bin so klug als wie zuvor;
Heiße Magister, heiße Doktor gar
Und ziehe schon an die zehen Jahr
Herauf, herab und quer und krumm
Meine Schüler an der Nase herum –
Und sehe, daß wir nichts wissen können!
Das will mir schier das Herz verbrennen."
As hopeless as the message and the rest of the Faust plot is, it gave me solace to share this moment, yet again, with the master of masters, Goethe.
Now here I am, a fool for sure!
Sign into Goodreads to see if any of your friends have read
Faust, First Part.
Sign In »
Quotes Lisa Liked
Reading Progress
Comments Showing 1-38 of 38 (38 new)
date
newest »
newest »
Jean-Paul wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Jean-Paul wrote: "Fabulous. In der Tat, der Meister aller Meister!"I was just commenting on your review of Mann's Faust, Jean-Paul! Must be Faust playing with Mephisto on Goodreads....."
Could I do anything but agree, Jean-Paul? We choose the same devils in literature, and the same masters.
Thank you for bringing this back for us Lisa. Faust and Mephistopheles have played such a large role in literature for centuries but Goethe has surely created the master story. Mann follows next for me. The story of mankind trying to supersede our limitations, to share that power and finally, to find love is eternal. We cannot but lose in that struggle but we keep trying. For those of us who have no soul to sell, there really is no hope.
Aaah, beautiful! I haven't touched him since school and absolutely need to re-read Goethe. Thank you for the inspiration, Lisa! :)
Das ist es wieder, das "als wie". Goethe ist aber auch der einzige, der das durfte. Für alle anderen gilt: http://www.stupidedia.org/stupi/Als_wieGoethe und auch Mann (Thomas, nehme ich mal an) sind Meister, klar. Aber der größte Meister, zumindest für mich, ist: Jean Paul (Sorry, ich meine den ohne Bindestrich)
Matt wrote: "Das ist es wieder, das "als wie". Goethe ist aber auch der einzige, der das durfte. Für alle anderen gilt: http://www.stupidedia.org/stupi/Als_wieGoethe und auch Mann (Thomas, nehme ich mal an) s..."
Ja, Mensch, Matt, dem Goethe seine dichterische Freiheit, die ist unantastbar! Was wär das aber auch für ein komischer Vers ohne das "als". Das wär ja als wie wenn da so gar nix mehr stimmen würde, poetisch gesprochen, meine ich.
Den Jean Paul Minus Bindestrich kenne ich nur vom Hörensagen. Empfehlungen, bitte!
RK-ique wrote: "Thank you for bringing this back for us Lisa. Faust and Mephistopheles have played such a large role in literature for centuries but Goethe has surely created the master story. Mann follows next fo..."That is very true, RK-ique! Thank you very much, it spoke directly to my torn heart today!
Lisa wrote: "Was wär das aber auch für ein komischer Vers ohne das "als". "Man könnte das "als" durch ein "nur" ersetzen? Oder man nimmt das "wie" weg und sagt "... und bin nicht klüger als zuvor". Nur so als Idee.
Jean Paul: Ich lese ihn chronologisch, aber mit recht langen Pausen. Bisher das beste, aber auch längste, Buch war "Hesperus Oder 45 Hundsposttage". Viel kürzer, aber fast ebenso amüsant: Leben des Quintus Fixlein. Beide Bücher und noch mehr gibt es (zum Anlesen) auch bei zeno.org: http://www.zeno.org/Literatur/M/Jean+...
Und dann gibt es noch dieses hier (kein Roman): Über die deutschen Doppelwörter, worin JP erklärt, warum er z.B. "Geburttag" und nicht "Geburtstag" schreibt.
Your observations on teaching and the Faust excerpt reminded me of Socrates on writing (in Phaedrus): "And you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise." Thanks for sharing, Lisa, I look forward to read more observations of you inspired by Faust! I recall reading Faust incited me to read The Master and Margarita by Boelgakov, which became one of my favorite novels ever.
Saw the copy of this in the Goethe Museum in Frankfurt this summer with a number of letters written by literary contemporaries about it to Goethe on display.
Ilse wrote: "Your observations on teaching and the Faust excerpt reminded me of Socrates on writing (in Phaedrus): "And you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many t..."Thank you so much, Ilse! I too read The Master And Margherita because of Faust, and love it dearly. Such a strange story! There are certain books that should be read as different instruments in an orchestra, I think. I will try Thomas Mann's Faust next, and maybe Marlowe at the end of the year. Goethe's Faust is never really absent in any case. I love the fact that you bring up Socrates. I think Goethe was directly inspired by it, as I am myself. There is so much truth in those dialogues.
Christy wrote: "Saw the copy of this in the Goethe Museum in Frankfurt this summer with a number of letters written by literary contemporaries about it to Goethe on display."I am happy you got a chance to see the originals. Always a special feeling. Just like Beethoven, Goethe has museums wherever he happened to live for a while. I like the Goethe Museum in Weimar a lot as well, but you made me curious to go back to Frankfurt during my next visit to Germany.
Of course the Casa Di Goethe in Rome, just off the Piazza del Popolo, makes you dream, even though there is not much in it ....
Jasmine wrote: "Aaah, beautiful! I haven't touched him since school and absolutely need to re-read Goethe. Thank you for the inspiration, Lisa! :)"I also read Faust in high school first, Jasmine, and it remains one of the books my strangely detached teachers couldn't spoil for me. it took me a decade to rediscover Antigone, A Street-Car Named Desire, Nathan der Weise, and Homo Faber, but Faust, for some reason, I loved despite everything. It is a mystery to me how people who were paid to talk about literature could be so little engaged in it. Seems to me like bliss! It don't even teach Language, and I still build in poetry, drama and novels wherever I can. Okay, so next generation might complain about an overdose of enthusiasm instead :-)
In the light of last night's Trump-Clinton "debate" (from Goethe's Faust II). Erst gewahrten wir vergnüglich
Wilden Wesens irren Lauf;
Unerwartet, unverzüglich
Trat ein neuer Kaiser auf.
Und auf vorgeschriebnen Bahnen
Zieht die Menge durch die Flur;
Den entrollten Lügenfahnen
Folgen alle. – Schafsnatur!
Matt wrote: "In the light of last night's Trump-Clinton "debate" (from Goethe's Faust II). Erst gewahrten wir vergnüglich
Wilden Wesens irren Lauf;
Unerwartet, unverzüglich
Trat ein neuer Kaiser auf.
Und a..."
Und es hört ja nie auf!
Danke für diese Zeilen - es ist immer ein kleiner Trost, wenn ein Dichter die bittere Wahrheit in schöne Verse packt!
Ich habe soeben eine weiter Verwendung von "als wie" gefunden und gebe sie hiermit zu Protokoll. In Wilhelm Buschs Geschichte Fipps, der Affe von 1879, Ende Kapitel 9, finden wir diese Zeilen:Der Künstler fühlt sich stets gekränkt,
Wenn’s anders kommt, als wie er denkt.
Matt wrote: "Ich habe soeben eine weiter Verwendung von "als wie" gefunden und gebe sie hiermit zu Protokoll. In Wilhelm Buschs Geschichte Fipps, der Affe von 1879, Ende Kapitel 9, finden wir diese Zeilen:Der..."
Hmmm, was machen wir bloss? Der Dichter ist dem Grammatiker sein Tod, scheint es mir.
Lisa wrote: "Hmmm, was machen wir bloss? Der Dichter ist dem Grammatiker sein Tod, scheint es mir. "Falls wahre Dichter sich erlauben
Wörter in wunderlicher Weis' zu schrauben,
wie so ein als vor so ein wie,
so sei es doch erlaubt für sie.
Matt wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Hmmm, was machen wir bloss? Der Dichter ist dem Grammatiker sein Tod, scheint es mir. "Falls wahre Dichter sich erlauben
Wörter in wunderlicher Weis' zu schrauben,
wie so ein als vor..."
Gut! So sei's!
Goethe for president!
Jacob wrote: "Goethe for president!"Very optimistic, Jacob! What do you think is the percentage of people who would be patient enough to follow his brilliant thoughts - in verse!
Lisa wrote: "Jacob wrote: "Goethe for president!"Very optimistic, Jacob! What do you think is the percentage of people who would be patient enough to follow his brilliant thoughts - in verse!"
Sadly I´m afraid Goethe would only be elected president of a rather small and exclusive enclave of verse lovers. Nevertheless it would be beautiful. Poets can make good presidents, Vaclav Havel for instance.
Jacob wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Jacob wrote: "Goethe for president!"Very optimistic, Jacob! What do you think is the percentage of people who would be patient enough to follow his brilliant thoughts - in verse!"
S..."
Good point, Jacob!
When I was a student I did this one and Marlowe's . I still cannot decide which one is better, but I think the two versions are worthy of a PhD thesis and comparative literature.
Mohamad wrote: "When I was a student I did this one and Marlowe's . I still cannot decide which one is better, but I think the two versions are worthy of a PhD thesis and comparative literature."Yes, I can't even start to imagine how many PhD theses have been written on those two plays. One of my professors in literature always told us during our MA studies never to pick one of the giants for our essays, as we would have to read whole libraries just to analyse one piece of writing. "Stay close to the original, and avoid getting soaked up in secondary literature", was her suggestion. I am quite grateful for that, as it made me compare different authors rather than different researchers. My love of reading wasn't drowned in meta literature :-)
Thank you, Lisa for the tip. I will start an MA next August :)
He is a wonderful poet. I read the Gerard de Nerval's french version which is very good. The fact is that Goethe has so many ideas and insights that the work is a delight even in those moments where the translated text is awkward.
Mohamad wrote: "Thank you, Lisa for the tip. I will start an MA next August :)"Good luck, Mohamad! With hindsight, those were wonderful years at university!
Czarny wrote: "He is a wonderful poet. I read the Gerard de Nerval's french version which is very good. The fact is that Goethe has so many ideas and insights that the work is a delight even in those moments wher..."I am pleased to hear Nerval translated Goethe well. His language is powerful, and I have often wondered how he fares in translation. But you are right - his ideas will always shine through!
Mohamad wrote: "Thank you, Lisa for the tip. I will start an MA next August :)"May I ask what subject/s you are studying, Mohamad?
Jaline wrote: "Excellent review, Lisa! :)"Thank you, Jaline!
Cheri wrote: "Wonderful review, Lisa!"Thank you so much, Cheri!
I'm due to re-read shortly. I've laughed through the first two reads and hope to do so again this time! Yes, both times I laughed throughout. Total entertainment. I believe Faust Part I was written and intended that way. Perhaps this is due to the translation by George Madison Priest. I gave away another translation that I could not stomach (too morbid)! Take this art seriously but not personally. Try a Priest translation.
Paul wrote: "I'm due to re-read shortly. I've laughed through the first two reads and hope to do so again this time! Yes, both times I laughed throughout. Total entertainment. I believe Faust Part I was written..."It is entertaining in a very dark way.
Oh my goodness, totally, I couldn't stop rolling my eyes at the Gretchen storyline. Her pregnancy was definitely a matter of social mores rather than of real sin (except for when she goes mad and begins to commit murder). Such a shame that people were (and in some places, still are) focused on cursing women's sexuality when there are so many real devils to conquer.
I was just commenting on your review of Mann's Faust, Jean-Paul! Must be Faust playing with Mephisto on Goodreads...