the main reason I don't take complaints about bychance seriously is that the way stranger things depicts "popular" kids is so bad and incel-minded that I can't be mad that people in fandom are interested in a more nuanced portrayal of a non-outwardly-nerdy kid.

and this isn't me accusing the writers of anti-jock bigotry or anything ridiculous like that, just me saying that writing about power dynamics in high school should come with the acknowledgement of the humanity of the kids involved to be effective--these dynamics are cruel and painful but they're also thorny, nuanced and juicy with potential drama. it's funny that they keep bringing up E.T. because both in E.T. and The Fabelmans Spielberg does an infinitely better job in portraying these dynamics than ST does. hell Glee did a better job with that, and if Glee did a better job with anything than you did, you know you fucked up.

it's just so rich that they made dustin talk about "divides" in his speech as if those divides hadn't been built into the writing from the start with no character being allowed to actually challenge or complicate them (except for steve, who only lived after the fact because he became so popular with the audience--which shocked the writers apparently, because what do you mean a character changing and proving he's more than his initial archetype would suggest makes him compelling to viewers? Inconceivable!). in ST liking D&D or liking basketball divides characters in two different species, the good guys and the bad guys. as for the popular girls, they're allowed sympathy only if they're lowkey into the "good guys," aka, the nerds--which is why chrissy had to flirt with eddie before dying violently, and nancy had to dance with dustin and assure him girls his age were "dumb" for not seeing what a dang great guy he was.

like in the grand scheme of things this is very minor, but I do think it's indicative of the incel-esque mindset that in retrospect influenced the narrative as a whole. lucas can't want to be in the team because that would be him Becoming A Bad Guy, because there are No Good Guys in the team for him to actually befriend. also, lucas' desire for popularity can't have any nuance because the story can't acknowledge that lucas being black means he might view this dynamic a little differently, because being (predominantly) white is a privilege both the jocks and the nerds share, and that can't be because The Good Guys are not privileged! they're freaks! outcasts! they're subversive and against the system because they really like to play D&D! or something

Yeah, these are my thoughts as well, Anon. The cyrano trope doesn't apply here because it wasn't that listening to what Will said made Mike decide he was in love with El. It just gave him the courage to say the words. I can understand how this may seem like splitting hairs but it is in fact crucial context for the scene. If the dialogue between Will and Mike contained Mike expressing doubts on whether he wants to be with El, and hearing Will's feelings made him change his mind, then we'd have the trope. But that's not what happened.

I really do think this scene existed so Will could "confess" his feelings to the audience while sparing us of the awkwardness of an actual confession. But then they should have abandoned the crush entirely in the time skip--dragging it out to season 5 did no one any favors (granted, nothing else about the time skip seems to have been taken into consideration in terms of the characters' inner conflicts--are you telling me Jonathan and Nancy lived for 18 months in the same house without all their issues exploding or being addressed in any way? Etc). I understand shippers clinging to the painting because, again, in a scenario where Mike had truly been thorn between El and Will, it would have mattered more. The problem is, this scenario never existed in canon.

bychance all the boys I've loved before AU: will makes a romantic drawing/painting to every boy he crushes on. it's a private way to cope with his feelings, but hijinks ensue and they accidentally get mailed out--the big problem being the latest one, about his current crush, his best friend mike, who is dating will's sister! cue fake dating with chance, a jock will previously crushed on for like two weeks in fourth grade and who he hasn’t thought much about/of ever since. they fall in love for real

Preach, anon. I think it's kind of sad that some M1levens have become so insecure and defensive over their unarguably canon ship that they have to try to frame Will negatively for one (1) push that Mike didn’t even notice was meant to be flirting. Like grow up! If you think Mike and El's relationship is that fragile Idk why you're shipping them in the first place. God forbid trying to have empathy toward Will for once.