Destiny 2: The Final Shape, Transmigration
Cross the threshold and discover what lies within the Traveler
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Anonymous asked:
I'm so confused, could you explain please, why does everyone post about the traveler being the gardener as if it's a big revelation? haven't we known about it for a pretty long time?
flowers-of-io answered:
It’s a tricky topic actually, because we’ve never had a clear and unambiguous confirmation of this in the lore. Unveiling got as close with the Gardener saying she would make herself a rule in the game, but some people (including me, actually!) are reading this as the rule being the Light—which you could argue is sort of like a force of nature/rule akin to those of physics—not the Traveler as a physical entity. Alpha Lupi (and Lumina’s!!! I so often forget how important this is!!!) lore is so much more helpful here because the Traveler seems to speak as someone Gardener-adjacent and ancient/primordial and knowing the Darkness personally and whatnot, and most importantly being equated with the alpha lupi from Clovis’ Logbook who is without a doubt the Gardener. I guess the dilemma could stem from entries like Books of Sorrow calling the Traveler iirc an agent of the Sky or whatever, and never really stating that the Traveler is the personalisation of the Light (and rather saying it gives the Light).
The question, as I see it, is whether the Traveler is an agent of the Gardener similar to the likes of the Leviathan (there’s barely any lore to support this), the Gardener herself—meaning the Gardener doesn’t exist simultaneously anywhere else (MK 44. Stand-Asides’ lore disproves this), or something like the physical embodiment of the Gardener in the material world. I personally agree with the third option the most, because the Gardener does still act in other ways beyond what the Traveler does, but it’s impossible to support the claim of those two being two completely separate entities. However I do believe (and hope to argue it in an essay longer than this hasty answer, when I’ve got my life & thoughts more sorted out) that the Gardener = the Light. I’m not sure as to whether the Sky is the Light/Gardener herself, or the Traveler, because Savathun says she “turned to the Sky” and I don’t know if she meant the Light generally or the glowing orb over the horizon itself, and Immaru tells her later “[the Light] is a paracausal force of the Sky”. But AGAIN, in Books of Sorrow the Traveler is not equated with the Sky, rather being its liaison/proxy/emanation/????.
The Traveler is definitely the same as the Gardener and the Light. The Traveler is referred to as Gardener’s body and Light is referred as its blood in a few places. And as you said, the Gardener made itself into the rule in the game.
Really extensive post with links to all the evidence.
I’d say that the Hive didn’t really know the extent of what the Traveler was back in the Books of Sorrow days. Given how much they’ve been lied to, it’s not a surprise to me.
Lord Saladin, for the sixth time in a row because I parked my guardian nearby while doing chores in the other room for a bit: Lucent Hive...risen by the Traveler?
what if the traveler is not what we thought it was
Really enjoying the Eliksni hugging their own knee and like curled around the railing in the annex
I love them. These two are straight up chilling here, looking at the Traveler. I can’t possibly imagine how this feels for them, to be beneath the Traveler again. I’m gonna cry.
Anonymous asked:
Here's something I'm a little confused about.
Is the Traveler THE Gardener or simply a gardener? Because I've been seeing people say that the Traveler is said entitiy, but there's nothing I found that confirms it, besides it being a title that the witness' species gave it.
Really impossible to say definitively. There’s a lot of little details about the Traveler and the Light and how many different species referred to it, as well as the fact that the Witness and its servants have been chasing it across the universe so it may as well be the same entity. But given that the Winnower does not appear to be a physical being, but rather a “concept,” the same may apply to the Gardener. In which case, the Traveler would be the closest to it, but not really it.
Then again, we have the whole Unveiling thing and the Gardener “inserting itself into the game” which to me implies that it did so as the Traveler. However, the nature of Unveiling is that it’s essentially a religious text. So a hundred people will interpret it in a hundred different ways, and that’s on purpose.
Personally for me, probably the strongest piece of evidence or at least something that’s very peculiar is the fact that when the Red War happened and the Traveler was caged, the Light got shut down across the universe (proven by the Drifter being outside of the solar system when it happened), and similarly when the Traveler woke up at the end and sent the blast of Light, the blast of Light travelled far and wide. That makes the Traveler the only, or at least strongest possible, source of Light in the universe which is quite interesting when it comes to this question. Is the Traveler the Gardener itself then, or is the Traveler just something the Gardener created to bring Light into the universe, but it’s not the same entity?
I do think there’s a strong link between the Gardener and the Traveler, and that there is a possibility they’re the same, but there is no direct and undeniable proof of this, and there likely never will be. If anything, the Traveler is the closest to the Gardener as it was described in Unveiling, for sure, and basically enacts its philosophy and power in the universe. Until either the Traveler or the Gardener speak directly to us to say something about this, I don’t think this will ever be answered conclusively.
Hhhhhng so. There's that passage in Ghost Fragment: The Traveler 3 which is also a part of the Dreams of Alpha Lupi:
You picture yourself as a piece of indigestible grit, a nameless nothing hiding among other nameless stones. Perhaps you glitter like a gem, yes. Pride makes you hope so. If only you could see yourself. But you have no eyes. Not the dimmest sense survives. What lives is memory, and what slim portion of these thoughts can you trust?
Hold that thought. Remember Optative, the cool Sol Divisive-themed hand cannon from Season of the Undying? I loved it back in the day, sad to see it sunsetted.
And I always racked my brain to figure out what was up with its flavour text. I assumed it was from Sol Divisive Vex's POV, maybe a hint towards how they felt after they started worshipping the Black Heart or after it was destroyed, but couldn't really understand it. And said flavour text goes:
If only you could see yourself. But you have no eyes. Not the dimmest sense survives…
Okay so according to my wild 2 am googling "optative" is a mood of speech "relating to or denoting a mood of verbs in Greek and certain other languages, expressing a wish, equivalent in meaning to English let's or if only". Which makes sense. But I have no clue how that ties the Vex to the Traveler whatsoever.
Thought? Any? I've been thinking about that gun for so long I physically ache for answers
Oh, there’s definitely things happening here. Enrichment incoming.
I will point you to this post by @infinitewarden
It’s about the similarities between how the Traveler expresses itself and how Osiris does it. Also some extra analysis about the Wolftone Draw lore. You both cited the same Alpha Lupi piece. Lore clowns together strong.
So is the Traveler dead or....
Not dead, but… gone. Would be the best description. The line in Ikora’s text post-campaign also helps a little because if it were dead, Ghosts would perhaps not be able to work:
ALTIt’s like possibly it has been removed from this dimension. Also hinted with Neomuna news line about Neomuni scientists researching it and thinking the Witness may have created a wormhole. Working theory is that both the Witness and the Traveler are not in this dimension anymore.
Obviously super speculative, based on not much information right now. Seems to be the most important thing being researched in the background lore right now, also mentioned in the post-raid cutscene.
Anonymous asked:
Without The Black Fleet chasing it? What could The Traveler possibly do?
Anything it wants! If it can still move, that is. I’d like to see it keep travelling. It’s what it does. There’s so much stuff out there now where the Traveler could help rebuild and grow without the threat of the Black Fleet.
your-local-fool asked:
Hey, might be old lore by now, but why were the pyramid ships just dormant out in the middle of nowhere? I get why they woke up for lack of a better phrase, but why were they dormant in the first place?
It was never answered directly in simple terms, but we have a vague idea that it had something to do with whatever happened at the end of the Collapse which resulted in the Black Fleet being pushed out of the Solar system. This involved the Traveler doing something which ended up leaving it heavily damaged and also dormant, as well as Savathun tricking the Witness, stealing the Veil and hiding it away. With the Veil gone and the Traveler “asleep,” the Black Fleet was driven away and had no reason to reactivate because the keys to the Witness’ plans (the Traveler and the Veil) were in some way removed and disabled. Kinda like, there’s nothing to do with the Veil gone and the Traveler metaphorically dead.
The Pyramids reactivated when the Traveler sent out the pulse when it awakened at the end of the Red War because it essentially signalled its position and its status as alive. This basically told the Witness “Hey one part of the equation is ready, we just have to find the Veil now. Worth taking a look.”
Okay so... am I the only one under the impression that it was the Traveler who took Io, Titan, Mars and Mercury and not the Darkness? Like, I think It took the planets/moons and just... tucked them away in some kind of stasis (no pun intended) so the Darkness couldn't get them.
That’s actually an interesting theory. Though from what we know about Darkness, end of season event and the descriptions of the missing planets, it’s very unlikely that the Traveler did those things, but it’s an interesting perspective to think about.
Mostly I think the Darkness would’ve been aware that the ships from their fleet that hovered above the planets were defeated by the Traveler’s single burst of Light at the end of Season of Arrivals. I think that would’ve made them act differently.