J.G. Keely's Reviews > Ringworld

Ringworld by Larry Niven
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Radio waves move at the speed of light. This is not particularly noticeable on Earth, but if you were at the sun, it would take eight and a half minutes for a signal to reach you, which would make a phonecall rather awkward. It would be even worse at the next closest star, Proxima Centauri, where messages take four years. Thus, the speed of light is the rate at which information moves, at which change change can propagate.

But most people don't think, when watching Star Trek, that Captain Picard shouldn't be able to have a quick chat with someone back on Earth. For those who do think that, there is Hard Sci Fi. It's a subgenre where the author actually knows something about scientific theory and tries to use that knowledge to make his world seem more reasonable to other people who know something about science.

It can be delightful to hear someone tell Commander Shepard that such communication is possible due to 'Quantum Entanglement', especially if you already know what that means (even if Shepard doesn't know, meaning you are now playing a character dumber than you). Thus, Hard Sci Fi is made up of a series of technological thought experiments, which can be very interesting, or very dull.

For instance, you can play a fun game with the author and second-guess their ideas, which OCD aspies seem to get off on. I decided to play around a bit myself and test his repeated assertion that it would take a lot of time to populate the Ringworld, thoroughly solving overpopulation problems for a species like humans.

Human beings on Earth double their population every fifty years, which is a geometric progression (x2, x4, x8, x16, x32), so that the growth gets faster and faster. The current population density of humans on the Earth is 45.3 people per square kilometer of land. Take the 6.8 billion humans on earth and move them to the ringworld (1.6×10 to the 15th square kilometers, but half of that's water), and you get eight and a half people for every million square kilometers of land. That is a lot of room to spare.

But that's before we start doubling and redoubling. Since the Ringworld's land area is 1.5 million times the land area of Earth, we'd need 1.5 million times as many people to reach the same population density. We would reach a population of 1.5 million times 6.8 billion between doublings 20 and 21, which--at 50 years per doubling--is just over a thousand years; not really that long a respite, in galactic terms.

And that doesn't even get into the migration rates, since, to get from one side of the ring to the other in a thousand years would require traveling 16 thousand miles per day, so you're probably starting to see both how distracting and how tedious Hard Sci Fi can be.

But Niven's isn't that bad, and he rarely gets into the numbers. A lot of readers might not even consider him to be real 'Hard Sci Fi' today--he's got faster-than-light travel, after all, and without a complex explanation or anything. But if a writer wants to make an engaging adventure story, they can't let themselves get too bogged down in the Science of it all. And Niven doesn't, it's just a treat for the reader who knows what to look for--some of it's even informative.

His characters are fairly straight-forward. We have a smart, introspective, science-minded guy who doesn't have a whole lot of personality. We've got distant, unusual logic alien, giant noble warrior alien, and a naive girl. It's not a bad exploration of these now-familiar tropes, even after all the intervening time.

The woman I found rather annoying, in part because she reminded me of the type of girl I usually avoided at parties: someone who had been pretty and well-off her entire life and hence, never had the need to develop a personality. I much prefer people who started our weird and awkward and only became attractive later in life.

But, at least Niven actually tries to explore this aspect of her character, instead of merely taking it for granted that this is how women are. I won't say his portrayal of women is ideal, she and the only other woman in the book are defined by their femininity and derive all of their power from sex. They do it somewhat knowingly, but it hardly makes for very complex characters or a challenging worldview, nor is it very 'alien'.

The plot itself is passable, much more sober and well-constructed than
Riverworld, but also less whimsical. It moves along at a quick pace, uncovering a few intergalactic political mysteries on the way, but we don't get a very solid conclusion at the end, so I must assume it's more of a lead-in to the next book in the series. We do get some closure, but I would have appreciated a stronger and more definitive arc.

Altogether an enjoyable, unpretentious read, and it's not hard to see why it became influential in the genre. It's not going to feel revolutionary to sci fi readers, even compared to earlier works like Star Trek and the Golden-age authors, but it's a solid, well-executed piece.

Comments below contain spoilers.
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Reading Progress

July 22, 2008 – Shelved
July 22, 2008 – Shelved as: science-fiction
July 22, 2008 – Shelved as: novel
September 13, 2011 – Started Reading
September 13, 2011 – Shelved as: space-opera
September 20, 2011 – Finished Reading
September 22, 2011 – Shelved as: reviewed

Comments Showing 1-19 of 19 (19 new)

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message 1: by Jim (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jim Hi Keely,

It has been awhile since I chimed in on a review.

My hazy memory (from a reread only a year ago - more or less) is that you missed at least one important (at least fascinating) idea from the book.

The setup for this idea is the Puppeteers - an advanced race that has an extreme risk-avoidance trait - is so extreme that the entire race is fleeing a world-destroying diaster thousands (millions?) of years in the future.

To assure their safety, the Puppeteers have also been meddling in human society, one aspect of which is to breed a woman who is brought along to investigate Ringworld (the naive girl to which you refer).

The Puppeteers experiment was to "breed for luck". The girl, as a result of several generations of breeding, is the luckiest person on Plant Earth. She is not only pretty and well-off, but also lucky in love. She's never been dumped - and as you allude - she's not particularly interesting or personable (the protagonist, Louis Wu, likes her well enough to have relations until she runs off with a Ringworlder).

There are other interesting ideas in the book - not the least of which is Ringworld itself - which is a variant on the Dyson Sphere idea.


J.G. Keely I suppose I try to write my reviews in a way which won't give away parts of the plot, especially when a lot of the interesting things about the book are the surprising galactic politics that Louis uncovers. I do hint at some of these things in my review, such as his playing with Hard Sci Fi concepts like the ringworld, trying to actually explore Teela's character rather than making it clear that she is a 'typical' woman, and mentioning the 'intergalactic mysteries', though it's true I don't go much into detail.

But it's true what you say, these things are the strength of the book. Thanks for the comment.


Manny (view spoiler)

But that's in the second book, of course.


Manny Bird Brian wrote: "I wish there were books not only with hard science, but with hard accounting. Who paid for Ringworld, and how?"

I have a terrible feeling that this is explained in the third book. I never got that far - book 2 already contained more explanations than I ever wanted.


Manny I think this raises the issue of how economics works at all once you have technology at the level where such things are possible. You're right, there is an interesting SF novel to be written here!


message 6: by Whitaker (new)

Whitaker No one's ever done a book about the law and economics of a fantasy world. Now that would really be a challenge.


Manny Just about the only thing I can think of offhand is the classic short story Business As Usual, During Alterations ... do people know it?


message 8: by Terry (last edited Sep 23, 2011 10:31AM) (new)

Terry Not sure if it fits the conversation exactly, but I hear that David Louis Edelman's Infoquake is basically a sci-fi novel about economics, though I don't know if it covers a post-scarcity society or not.


J.G. Keely And let's not forget that China Mieville has a Masters in Economics and that his plots tend to come about for economic reasons.


message 10: by Whitaker (new)

Whitaker @Keely: Quite right, Keely. One of the charms of Kraken, for me, was the entire sub-plot with the striking familiars.

@Manny: No, I wasn't familiar with it. Thanks for introducing it. I will definitely read it when I get a chance.

Generally:
There're a few science fiction short story examples I can think of that touch on it. One was a short story about a guy who wins an award because, in a world where he couldn't buy stuff fast enough, he got his robot servants to wear out his stuff for him. Evidently written before the whole idea of changing stuff for the sake of changing it. Another one has a guy land on a planet and they are starting up the whole idea of exchanging coupons for work done as a way of facilitating a barter system. It explored the idea of money, but did little to really advance it. That's about it, actually.


Tatiana I hate how sexist this book and all Niven's books were, though at the time it didn't seem so bad, as I recall.

The ideas are super fun. I like how he goes at least one step into the implications to society of the technology. I tend to feel that the structure of our societies comes about more because of our current level of technology than anything else, a point of view that may be partly due to the fact that I'm an engineer. And I like how Niven goes from time stasis fields to frictionless parts, and so on, taking things a step or two further than the immediate results.

Like with all old SF it's fun to see how hilariously anachronistic some of the ideas of the future turn out to be. Lewis Wu clacking away on a manual typewriter, for instance reminds me of Heinlein's Stone family calculating interplanetary trajectories with slide rules. Another one is the fact that room temperature superconductors were shaped inside the electronics of the floating cities into big old discrete wires which Lewis could see and easily replace with strips of his Puppeteer-made cloth. Surely such sophisticates would shrink it all down to tiny chips as we do.

But still an enjoyable read in many ways, some 35 years after its initial publication. Surely that's something.


J.G. Keely Yeah, it can be hard to deal with the manliness of it all. And failing to foresee the social effects of technology is pretty much a given for old sci fi, but it's nice to see that other elements of Niven's work did pan out, and can still cause a bit of wonder today.


message 13: by Jim (last edited Dec 19, 2012 10:49AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jim (in case Bird Brian, Whitaker, Manny, et al are still getting updates)

An old time SF writer (Clarke?) once wrote that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I suggest that sufficiently advanced technology and lots of time (millenia) could make feasible the "fiscally ridiculous".

(imagine what Polynesians with outrigger sea craft would think if confronted by a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier - like the recently de-commissioned Enterprise)

A Ring World requires lots of energy (fusion, matter-anti-matter conversion), material (asteroid belt), time, and the will to build it.

Such is certainly far more ambitious than "ordinary" terra-forming, interstellar travel, etc. but not necessarily in-feasible.


message 14: by Jim (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jim Tatiana,

I hate how sexist this book and all Niven's books were

Good, bad, or indifferent, SF started as a boy's game - and I imagine still is male-dominated (though I'm hardly conversant with current SF output).

I just finished Asimov's autobiography (which was published in 1980). You might be interested to know that he leaned toward feminist thinking (though not the radical variety which in untenable for polite society) starting in the 60s.

Keeley is much more conversant with classic literature, so he may confirm or deny that much pre-1950s literature is sexist considered with a broad definition of sexism.

I hazard a guess that to enjoy the good of quality (and "old") SF and much in the classic canon it might be useful to suspend modern feminine sensibility.


Tatiana Jim, suspend the idea that I'm a person, you mean? Kind of difficult. Niven is a whole generation after Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein, so I do think he should have known better. And I don't really absolve SF as being a boys club since Ursula K. Le Guin and James Tiptree Jr. (aka Alice Sheldon) were already writing back then, too.

Even so, I do love much of his work for the fun ideas. Protector was particularly good because of the planet Kobold that Jack Brennan in his protector stage had sculpted with generated gravity in the outer reaches of the solar system. So many cool ways to mix art and technology!


J.G. Keely "Good, bad, or indifferent, SF started as a boy's game"

Mary Shelley would beg to differ, but it is true that, on the whole, the genre has been dominated by male perspectives. However, despite that, it also tends to be more progressive than fiction at large, in terms of women and other politics, so that if you do see women in a stronger role, it's often been in genre books. Looking back on Van Vogt and Heinlein you can see attempts by authors to make powerful, central female figures who weren't defined by their romantic connection to some fellow or another. Whether these experiments are ultimately successful is unfortunately less clear-cut, but Niven, as a later arrival at the game, doesn't have much excuse for it.


Jonathan Harbour I hated this novel from nearly every angle, so much so that I never read another by Niven again. I read it about 20 years ago. He took a grand idea and ruined it with unfeasible scenes and unbelievable characters. And, as for all the awards--having joined the sfwa last year, I can tell you, the title and cover alone lead to votes. "Surely such a cool idea must be a great story" and they vote without having even read it.


J.G. Keely Jonathan said: "they vote without having even read it"

Yeah, everyone I've talked to who's been on an award committee has a similar experience--to the point where many of them vowed never to do it again, since it tended to come down to bullying and in-fighting between a bunch of folks who haven't even read the same books.


Rodzilla Getting the robots to wear out possessions: “The Midas Plague” by Frederick Pohl.


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