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My builder...Hmmm
So, I just wanted to discuss something because....There's been a pretty disturbing thread to be pulled with this builder situation.
So we get this sequence in Will's mindscape scene right. Presumably, Vecna is showing this to Will the same way he showed the 4 rifts to Nancy (why he would do this is another conversation, out of the scope of this post but im staring)
I think it is really interesting that we get the confirmation that Vecna used Will to build these tunnels while he slept, and it is evident that Will does not have any memory of this. And then we have these new s5 scenes of his eyes moving while he is 'sleeping'/in the mindscape again. In the scene RIGHT prior this one. We do get the litle red eyed girl next to him indicating that he is forced to spy on Max, but is this the only thing he is doing?
Also a little sidenote but what's up with the bedframe having wheels in it. 'It's not just a wheel', the Wheelers, wheel and Will being phonetically the same...They are trying to talk to me through the light but I don't get it, lol. Anyway I was saying!
We got Will telling the rest about the rifts that Vecna showed him:
And I ask. We got Vecna calling Will his spy, and he spied. He called him his vessel, and he is lowkenuinely possessed again. Then he called him his builder, and I'm supposed to believe that Will is not building now? Is the Mindflayer using Will to make the rifts in the abyss? Or make it into something that looks like Hawkins.
In this literally ancient post oh my god, I pointed out this connection:
that the Mindflayer wants a William to build everything he sees. The fact that a mirror version of Billy was asking this makes me wonder. Does the Mindflayer need Will to make this new merged world look the same as the Right Side up?
In any case, Will's involvement here is definitely not just what we know. There is more than he consciously knows, and therefore what we as the audience have seen. I am staring quite hard at this. Will, what did you build without knowing??
Yep! Also, it doesn't make sense that Vecna always lets Will live, unless, he still needs him. After Vecna sees where Max is he could kill him. That man was pissed. Will hurt him, even controlled him like a puppet. Vecna calls him boy. And yet, he lets him live, again. And I doubt it's because he thinks he's weak. If Will was so weak and useless, he would just snap his neck.
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Will accepting his powers are innate is the final step in his sexuality arc.
Robin explains her sexuality journey through three steps. 1. Self-acceptance 2. Coming out 3. Romance. The same path will be followed with Will’s powers, aligning with his acceptance of his sexuality.
1. Self-acceptance
At a distance from the radio station, Mike proposes that Will has usable powers. Will’s powers are like a radio antenna. The signal is weak. Will doesn’t agree in this moment. He isn’t ready to accept who he is.
Will’s powers were always used subconsciously, but he didn’t believe he had any control. Then he stops hiding from himself. He takes back agency over his sexuality. He finally accepts he can use his powers.
In Robin's film reel, she was alone. In Will’s film reel, he was surrounded by those he loves most. He still doesn't fully believe in himself or his powers. He’s using others to activate them. He’s using Vecna to activate them.
2. Coming out
Will and Mike constantly bicker over the source of Will’s powers. Will insists they’re siphoned from Vecna, but Mike believes they’re innate. Vecna tells Will his powers don’t belong to him. He then shows Will that he can’t have a happy future if he comes out. Will is still struggling to be okay with who he really is, both his powers and sexuality.
When Vecna forces Will to spy, Will tries to use his film reel to escape and fight back. It doesn’t work. He can’t use others to activate his powers anymore. Siphoning isn’t the answer.
The group doesn’t include Will in their plan to kill Vecna because Will doesn’t believe he can. He doesn’t believe he can come out. Will now sees something that comes from within, but only his fear and weakness. But he doesn't want to be dictated by fear anymore.
In the radio station, the signal is stronger. Will comes out and they accept him. Vecna was wrong. He can have a happy future. So Will decides he can help defeat Vecna too. He isn’t scared to be himself. He isn’t scared to use his powers again. What else could Vecna be wrong about?
3. Romance
Will’s powers stem from love. This is how they show themselves subconsciously (ex. protecting Joyce). He defeated fear by coming out, but he hasn’t accepted love. He hasn’t received romantic love. Will is like a receiver.
Just as he denies Mike’s signals to protect himself from outward rejection, he denies that his abilities come from within. He’s scared of what will happen if he’s wrong. What if he uses his powers and Vecna retaliates unexpectedly? What if Mike retaliates? So he keeps his guard. Mike isn’t sending strong enough signals to be received.
Vecna says that he’s unlocking the kids' dormant psychic abilities to move worlds. So the powers are innate. In a weird way, Vecna is Will’s Tammy. Will is seeking answers in Vecna, he’s siphoning from Vecna. But the answers—the powers—don’t come from him. They come from Will.
Will and Mike will be at the top of the radio tower together in the finale. The signal is most strong. Will’s powers are most strong. Mike will reciprocate Will’s love. In doing so, Will will understand how Mike views him and internalize it. His powers are innate.
But remember, it’s still not about Mike’s reciprocation, it’s about Will seeing himself for who he truly is. Mike is just the catalyst. He knows who Will is at his core and loves him for it. Will can love himself too if he looks at himself through this lens. Mike isn't the answer, rather Mike sees Will's answers. He sees what's already there. Mike knows Will's powers are innate. Will needs to see it too. Only then can Will use his powers to their full potential.
Will doesn’t have to fear that his powers can be turned back on him. Love can’t be used against him. He can use love. That’s his true channel. Not Vecna, but himself. The love he feels and the love he receives. Love can defeat fear.
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Down Once More: Deals and Descents
CW: discussions of SA/CSA subtext.
This is a revised look at my gothic meta posts (all pinned on my bio) for S5 vol II after the most recent trailer.
A Deal with the Devil
The source of Will's powers is not clear - on one hand, we have Mike saying that Will's abilities are "innate", but then we have Noah and the Duffers saying that Will's abilities are being "siphoned" through his connection to Vecna. While I think that vol II will divulge further into the nature of Will's abilities, I would like to bring attention to this quote from Jason in S4:E6:
"Eddie made a pact with the devil, now he has his powers."
I think Will has other powers that are actually innate (the blue lightning spreading over the UD / Will the Wise depicted with a blue sphere), but for the purpose of this post, I'm specifically focusing on the abilities we saw in E4.
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Vecna and Will need to be "connected" 🔌
Thinking about how Vecna is possibly trying to "plug" Will into something here (a Nautiloid ship most likely but I digress) using roots, the same way he himself appears to "plug" into the hivemind.
Vecna probably wants to travel through space-time (hence the AWIT references), and Will is a "radio receiver" according to Robin, aka a transponder used for air traffic control.
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Anonymous asked:
What would a fake death look like though and do you believe they would write it in a way for the audience to also believe Will's dead?
Will is powerful, but his power comes with obvious limitations. Limitations that put not just other people in danger but himself.
First, Will is still connected to the hive mind and can feel its pain when in close proximity. It's teased that Will can influence the hive when feeling a strong emotion (ex. pain), meaning he can avoid tapping into Vecna. Unfortunately, that doesn't alleviate the physical strain on his body. And who even knows about the consequences on his mind.
Will Byers is someone who told his loved ones to "CLOSE GATE" in Stranger Things 2, despite being aware it would kill him. Will Byers is also someone who vehemently told his mother in Stranger Things 5 that they "don't have time to play it safe". Will is more confident, capable, and determined after the events of "Sorcerer". He's going to do whatever it takes to protect the people he cares for: his family, his friends, the kids, the town, and the world.
If it comes down to it and he's the only one at risk--because we don't know the nature of the other kids' connection yet--it's likely Will would attempt something radical like acting as a self-destruct button for the hive mind. That's who he is as a person: selfless to a self-sacrificial degree. The ensemble can't defeat Vecna without significant interference--and that goes beyond El. As Dustin said, "God, we need Will".
Even if the range of his power is amplified (by strong emotion, such as love), the physical and psychic strain of eliminating the entire hive mind should have debilitating consequences. Experiencing death second-hand hundreds of times should kill someone. Will should die.
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Thinking thoughts.
Four teenagers, like the grandfather clock's chimes. Twelve kids, like the hours on a clock.
Will's arms like the hands of a clock, and Will himself as the center post
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A Birthdaygate Re-Opening
Do you know what November 6th is? Well; very likely the date Henry Creel got lost in the Nevada caves and transported to Dimension X, on his 8th birthday.
Do you know what March 22nd is? Likely the date that the Creel Murders happened, and Will's birthday.
But for some reason... even though these are dates previously established... the characters forgot about Will's birthday in Season Four. And then Joyce forgot Will's age upon him going missing.
And weirdest of all, even though it's established the Creels moved to Hawkins in March, the date of the play (and thus the Creel Murders) has been changed inside Henry's memory to November 6th.
Lets talk about this:
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Anonymous asked:
no idea if this makes any sense, but on the topic of gothic heroine will/gothic husband mike, how vampires are often used to represent disease and how in nosferatu (2024) he literally calls upon a plague to infect ellen and thomas's home and how this is 80s america so it's the midst of the AIDS epidemic and how people blamed the queer community for that and how the shame mike and will feel because of it may be something explored in season 5
Yes, this makes total sense! There is for sure some sort of plague happening in S5.
I believe there were reports/leaks that the kids in Hawkins are suffering from some mysterious illness, and that shot of the kids in the bunker from the July teaser makes me think children are going to be targeted.
This is similar to Dracula, as children were being targeted by a “bloofer lady”, aka freshly turned vampire Lucy Westenra. My mind immediately goes to Vecna’s creepy human persona “Mr. Whatsit”, who we have seen targeting Holly.
“The police of the division have been instructed to keep a sharp lookout for straying children, especially when very young” (pg. 170)
“We have just received intelligence that another child…was discovered late in the morning…It has the same tiny wound in the throat as has been noticed in other cases…It too, when partially restored, had the common story to tell of being lured away by the ‘bloofer lady’” (pg. 170).
The 1992 film doesn’t explore this much, except for this one scene where Lucy has a frightened child in her arms.
Perhaps Vecna’s targeting of children will result in some mysterious physical ailments to lead the authorities into thinking there is a spreading illness.
As for Nosferatu, the Count’s arrival brought forth a plague of infected rats. We’ve already seen infected rats in S3, so I wonder if there will be some new animal used in S5.
I’m sure the AIDS subtext will play into this whole Hawkins epidemic - that subtext has been there across the seasons, so I am curious as to how blatantly it will manifest in S5. Lucy tried to warn the townspeople, “I know the reason for all of this evil”, but she was ignored, which led to her having to sacrifice herself.
Maybe Will is going to try and warn people, but be shunned as well…I would hate to think that he would be blamed as the cause, but I can definitely see the town thinking that he is the reason for Hawkins becoming a hellhole ever since his disappearance. That’s an especially upsetting situation as Will was the victim, not the perpetrator. This mass blame could also drive Will to surrender himself up to Vecna in E4.
Thank you for the ask! You’re definitely onto something!
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What’s puzzling to all of us is that during the confrontation in front of the library, where Vecna appears, Will is alone on the ground. Where are Joyce and Mike? No one would believe they left him there voluntarily.
This leads me to think: what if this scene isn’t real, but rather Will's “vision” of what might happen?
It will be similar to how Sarah Connor “witnessed” the world’s destruction in Terminator 2.
In this scenario, there’s a massacre, Vecna pulls Will close, and tells him he will spy for him one last time before Will wakes up.
After this vision, Will is filled with doubt; he won’t be sure what is real and what is manipulation. He will struggle to understand what he can use to fight Vecna and what is simply a deception.
In Season 3, Will mentioned that the Mind Flayer (Vecna?) only used him when it was necessary. This implies that in Season 2, when Will saw Hopper’s location in the tunnels and led the group to the exact spot where the military later came to burn the vines, the Mind Flayer/Henry wanted the lab to know that Will was connected to the hive in order to prevent the burning. He used Will to stop the fire, and once the team trusted Will for saving Hopper, the Mind Flayer/Henry manipulated the soldiers into a trap, resulting in their deaths and initiating the Demogorgon attack. In Season 5, when Will witnesses the attack on the Wheeler house - potentially from the Demogorgon’s perspective - it’s likely that he won’t have chosen to spy. He will definitely want to be useful and help fight Vecna, but the team may be cautious and skeptical about whether what he sees is genuine or manipulation.
I know ST comics are not canon, but there is a concept of “changing the future” in one of them.
Six, the main character of the story, has the ability to foresee the outcomes of events.
Her father made her guess winning lottery numbers, but it didn’t always work, and he bullied her for that. When she entered the program, Brenner pushed her to enhance her skills, but she eventually decided to run away with two other kids. In a vision, she saw her friend being killed by a bullet. However, in reality, she ended up taking the bullet herself, successfully “rewriting” the future.
As she was dying, she told Brenner, “I changed it… what I saw. Just like you wanted…”
What if a real version of this scene in front of the library occurs later, but plays out differently because the team is more prepared and Will has learned to control his newfound abilities better?
Will could change the outcome of the supernatural event he believed to be inevitable. This would mirror his personal belief that he is a mistake and that someone like him has no future in his current time and place. He will assert his right to be happy.
Another significant aspect is Henry’s belief in predictable cycles - he will be proven wrong when Mike reciprocates Will’s feelings, highlighting that queer love triumphs over conformity.
Let me know what you think!
timblriche-deactivated20260106
In Season 3, Will mentioned that the Mind Flayer (Vecna?) only used him when it was necessary. This implies that in Season 2, when Will saw Hopper’s location in the tunnels and led the group to the exact spot where the military later came to burn the vines, the Mind Flayer/Henry wanted the lab to know that Will was connected to the hive in order to prevent the burning.
This just blew my mind bc somehow it did not click for me that the MF used Will as a hostage to keep building the tunnels. Henry literally (once again) weaponized Joyce's love for Will against everybody knowing how hard she'd advocate for him !!
Yes, exactly. For villains like Henry, love and compassion are seen as weaknesses.
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Mike’s Feelings Will Be Revealed in E5
And it will lead him on a journey to save Will.
I think many of us are familiar with the concept of pivotal Byler moments occurring in the episode that is the same number as the season. Note, pivotal moments, not necessarily the defining Byler moments.
I think the pivotal Byler moment in E5 will be Mike’s true feelings coming to light - and I have a tinfoil hat theory as to how!
Here I theorized that Will is going to possibly make a deal with Vecna prior to the downtown massacre; giving Vecna something of his in order to keep his loved ones safe. I think it’s likely Will may keep this transaction a secret from the others.
The climax of E4 is the downtown massacre and Will and Vecna’s confrontation. However, Will seems to still be with the group after this event (?)
At least, he will be corporeally.
I think Will surrendered his mind and abilities to Vecna. Like Max’s condition, this will leave him lost in the ether.
This scene between Mike and Joyce seems to happen in E5 after the downtown massacre. We can make out Will on the couch, Joyce distraught and in prayer, and Mike approaching her, with a determined expression.
These two will undoubtedly have a heart to heart about their respective relationships with Will and how much they love him - and how they are going to try and save him again. After all, these two were incredibly determined to save Will in S1 and S2 and that ferocity is coming back - especially from leader Mike, who was a major focus in the trailer.
I think Mike’s romantic feelings for Will are going to be voiced in this scene with Joyce, and I think he will concoct a plan to get Will back by going into his mind (or the void, or some secret third mental sphere the show has yet to introduce).
And who better to seek help from than El, who had a whole plotline in S4 about traversing through the mind and its memories?
A lot of people theorized that El and Mike’s moment at the makeshift sensory deprivation tank was right before El began to search for Will. I think that is mostly correct, but that we will see Mike nominate himself to look for Will with El’s assistance. El may be initially hesitant on account of how dangerous going back into the mind is (they had to restart her heart in s4!)
“This isn’t like one of your campaigns.”
Knowing Mike’s stubborn self, he’s not going to back down. I think his determination will clue El into how deep Mike’s feelings go for Will. While I don’t necessarily think this is a coming out scene, the way Mike’s expression subtly shifts from surprise to relief leads me to think that he feels like he can be his truest self - and still be loved.
Also, Mike finding it in himself to be a hero while asking for help from superhero El would be really sweet!
This possibility reminds me of Christopher Nolan’s Inception: protagonist Dom and his teammate Ariadne find Dom’s deceased wife in the subconscious known as Limbo. The Duffers cited Inception on the S4 movie board, and I’m positive its influence will continue into S5.
The set design of Mike’s room featured some possible easter eggs to this plotline: posters of Escher’s works “Relativity” and “Sphere of Reflection”. The Relativity poster was hung under Mike’s One Way sign, pointing towards his closet where a mirror and blue and yellow ties were hanging.
Mike searching for Will in some mind-bendy fashion would be a reversal of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind: unlike Joel, who wanted to rid his memories of his relationship with Clementine after she secretly got rid her own, Mike is going to seek out Will through the use of his mind and his memories in order to hold onto Will.
Maybe Mike going under is the finale of E5, with E6 “Escape from Camazotz” seeing the two reunite. Read my batshit theory on ST x Eternal Sunshine here!
I’d also argue that El helping guide Mike to Will is sort of a play on Hecate guiding the spring goddess Persephone out of the Underworld from the myth of Persephone’s abduction (which parallels Will and Vecna).
Mike saving Will from Vecna’s grasp is also so knight in shining armour. Leader Mike putting himself through hell in order to save the love of his life from Death incarnate…it’s just a little bit excellent!
#hey um the implications of this are making me insane#just the idea that mike knows will best enough to be the person to go in his mind and find him#a meeting of the minds. how intimate is that#CRAZY TOGETHER!#and it could even help el find max as well- maybe this is the missing component here bc she couldn’t find max before#anyway can u tell this sent me into a frenzy. very good ideas here tysm for this#byler meta#st5 theory
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A thought about "Camazotz" and time travel this coming season: in A Wrinkle in Time, Camazotz is this highly conformist, hyper-idealized city/suburb. As a kid reading it in the late 1990s, I always pictured it as having a very 1950s American suburban aesthetic, like you'd see in something like Edward Scissorhands. This is perhaps not what Madeline L'Engle, writing in the early sixties, intended--I've seen Camazotz interpreted as a stand-in for imposed conformity in the Soviet Union--but, in the "real-world" portions of the book, heroine Meg (living in a small New England town) suffers from gendered expectations of how she should behave as well as spiteful gossip about her missing father and implicitly neuroatypical baby brother. So I think there is an implied critique of conformity in the US as well.
All this is to say...what if a character is offered a false vision of perfection and conformity to trap them or harness their energy? I think the most natural and intriguing option is Will being subjected to an evil It's a Wonderful Life, where Vecna capitalizes on his hopelessness and self-abnegation by showing him a (falsely) ideal world where he was never born. Mike and El are blissfully happy, and the rest of their friend group is harmonious heterosexual couples. There is no trace of Upside Down/Hawkins Lab/Soviet bullshit (except for El's very presence--watch this spot). Everyone who died over the course of the show is now alive (which is extremely personally meaningful to Will when that person is Bob, although of course he's also glad to people like Barb and Eddie and Benny because they mean a lot to people he cares about, and...hey, is that Billy? Maybe he's nicer in this world...huh, that guy looks like Brenner, but the lab is gone?). Joyce and Jonathan are no longer exhausted from having to look after them...in fact, they're part of a conventional nuclear family, because Lonnie never left. And this is an idealized Lonnie, not a deadbeat or an abuser, and maybe Will's always wondered if he was the source of all the tension in the family...but were things ever this good with him around? Didn't Joyce and Jonathan have grievances with him other than how he treated Will? And Joyce and Jonathan seem so different--more content and less tired, maybe, but also way more conventional and hard and shiny and close-minded. And that's how everyone seems. And El, his constant companion in California, seems less like herself and more like the popular girls she tried and failed to imitate. And how did she get here, anyway, if there's no UD and no lab? And the cracks begin to show.
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The Wall, Mindscapes, and Jungian Psychology
After listening to The Wall by Pink Floyd, I believe this album is being used to foreshadow the final conflict between Henry and Will. A battle between minds.
The Wall is a concept album exploring the emotional walls the character Pink puts up. Each traumatic event in his life is another brick in the wall. A wall of memories.
Pink is a tormented artist. His father was killed during WWII, leaving him with no father figure. His mother was overprotective. He isolated himself within his emotional walls. During a drug-induced hallucination onstage, he believed he was a fascist dictator. Once he came out of his hallucinations, he was racked with guilt and put himself on trial within his own mind. He reverted into a childlike version of himself and faced his violent adult self. This ended in him tearing down the wall, forcing himself to reckon with every part of himself as a punishment. It's a very Jungian ending of confronting the shadow.