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Odds and... odds...

@thenightling

The truth of faeries and names according to folklore:

The Internet has lead to many people thinking that faeries stealing names has always been a part of the lore. It’s actually not that common at all except in recent pop culture. The popularization of the idea of faeries wanting to steal names partly came about because of the same cross-pollination of lore that lead to the memes that perpetuate the idea. Anime like Spirited Away and modern fantasy literature stewed together with meme culture to perpetuate this idea.

In traditional Gaelic lore faeries don’t usually want to steal your name. They’re not out to get a credit card in your name while you sit there trying to remember your own birth certificate name but are drawing a blank. What they want, in most of the stories, is to *learn* your True Name. Not necessarily your given name, nickname, or even what everyone calls you. It’s not necessarily your legal name or what’s on your birth certificate. (But it can be any of those things). What they want is your TRUE name with a capital T. Your True name is NOT necessarily your legal name though that is a possibility. And no, it’s not necessarily the name you take during confirmation if you are Catholic. It’s the name that you carry deep inside. It might even be a secret name that no one knows but it IS the name you identify as deep inside, a name you associate with who and what you truly are. Everyone has a true name, whether they realize it or not.

I’ll give an example from pop culture. In Batman Beyond you see Bruce Wayne beint tornented by the villain, Vertigo. Vertigo tries to pass himself off as Brue’s subconscious but Bruce figures out it’s not his own mind because Vertigo is not calling him by his TRUE name. And in his mind Bruce’s True name, even in old age, is Batman. Terry tries telling Bruce later “You know you’re not Batman anymore, right?” and Bruce responds with “Tell that to my subconsicous.”

Bruce sees himself utterly as Batman, not as Bruce Wayne. In The Sandman: The Wake Clark Kent (Superman), and Martian Manhunter appear at The Wake but Bruce Wayne is there as Batman because that’s who he sees himself as deep down inside.

In the 1985 film Fright Night we meet has-been horror actor and TV horror host, Peter Vincent. The character Charlie Brewster has discovered that his neighbor is a real vampire and he seeks Peter’s help. When Peter finally comes to realize that Charlie is actually right and that Jerry Dandridge is, in fact, a vampire, he’s terrified. He protests that Peter Vincent is only a character and not even his real name. However, after some soul searching and character growth, and circumstances force Peter Vicent to kill a boy who recently was turned into a vampire, Peter Vincent comes to embrace his persona. He realizes that Peter Vincent isn’t merely a character. He is the hero he always secretly wanted to be, the hero he NEEDS to be. And so he repeats to himself “I am Peter Vincent, the Great vampire Killer!” until he finally accepts that yes, this is who he is. This is who he must be now. He finally becomes the character he had played, the persona of who he had always secretly longed to be but was afraid of. By the end of the film he was, indeed, Peter Vincent. You never even learn his “real” name in the movie because that does not matter. It’s not who he truly is. He IS Peter Vincent.

In Neil Gaiman’s The Sandman the main character (who is the living embodiment of dreams) is over ten-billion-years-old but he seems to consider the relatively recent (only a few thousand years old) name of Morpheus to be his true name. He can be summoned by calling out this name. This is why it annoyed me that G. Willow Wilson (In The Dreaming: Waking Hours comic) depicted Heather After (who is trans) as having her deadname being her true name and the story tried to make it empowering that she determined that true names have no real power. I think it would have been more satisfying if her chosen name of Heather After turned out to be her true name. Heather is a great character but that was a terrible plot point. Her Deadname should NEVER be perceived as her true name even if true names hold no power in the story. Heather After (her chosen name) should have been her True Name and it would have been a confirmation of this if there was power in it. A True Name is not necessarily a legal name or birth name or even the most well known name that you answer to though it can be any of those things. What matters is that it is the name you consider yourself. Sometimes you, yourself, may not even know your own true name but if someone calls it, you’ll know it, your very soul will feel it. One could even surmise that the historic Vlad (Vladislaus) the Third of Wallachia AKA Vlad Tepes (The impaler), known as Kazıklı Bey by the Ottomans, had chosen his own true name when he chose the patronymic of Dracula (with various archaic spellings) to honor his father and his membership to the Order of the Dragon (Dracul). Dracula means Son of the Dragon.

And yes, a True Name can change over time but it is not common and does not happen often. Some people take years trying to find out their own True Name.

So why do faeries want to learn someone’s true name? Well, it’s simple. Knowledge has power and this is a particular type of power. In occult practices if you know a magical entity’s true name you can invoke them, summon them to you, banish them or bind and enslave them. This is why faeries want to know your true name. It’s much more potent than stealing the knowledge of a legal name. It is to gain utter power of you by knowing your truest self, the name by which you could be conjured and can pull at your essence.

To me this is far more interesting than the idea of a faery stealing your name. They can, through knowing your true name, lay claim to YOU!

(Faerie art by Brian Froud from his book Good Faeries / Bad Faeries).

“Is the word ‘Fae’ offensive?” The sort answer is No. No, it is not.

There is a strange debate on if the term fae would be considered a slur to the entities this term is in regard to. The Internet, in its “infinite wisdom” collectively decided that fae is incorrect because it is “new” and then someone made the logic-leap that the entities it refers to would find the term offensive, or slur-like. I have it on good authority that they would not find it offensive. Think of all the mischief that would mysteriously befall many works of fantasy literature if this was the case. It is true that the etymology of fae and fairy are from French and in turn from Latin meaning Fates however the usage of Fae by other cultures has a bit of a twisting, Labyrinthine, history. These beings, in Norse lore, were known as Alfir, Alfie, or Alfr and from this we get the word “elf.” In Gaelic lore these entities were called the sidhe (pronounced as “She”). The Banshee comes from the Gaelic Bean Sidhe (Woman fairy). However not all female faeries are the banshee. You may notice there’s an overlap with ghost stories and faery lore in old folk legends. The reason for this is in some lore a human or a human’s ghost could become a faery. The banshee was usually, formerly, a deceased mortal woman. Washington Irving even referred to The Headless Horseman, in his Legend of Sleepy Hollow, as a goblin. This may come from the Irish having a specific term for the souls of men who lost their heads in battle becoming a type of dangerous faerie known as a Dullahan. Despite The Legend of Sleepy Hollow being set in a Dutch New York colony, I can’t help but think there was some Irish influence here. Faeries are not always the tiny pixies like Tinkerbell. You get powerful and sometimes harmful beings like the Dullahan (headless Horsemen), Red Caps (Goblin-like creatures that soak their caps in the blood of those those kill), goblins, trolls, The Erlking, and many scary entities – some of which literally feed on fear. For this reason the Irish, Welsh, Scottish, and English were afraid to offend them. And they came up with euphemisms like The Good Neighbors, The Beautiful People, and The Fair Folk. When the word Fairy came to the English language it was tied to The Beautiful People euphemism and evolved into “The Fair Folk” before reverting back to Fairy, Faery (Older speller), and Fae. A winding path but the word found two passages into modern language. So no, these entities would probably not find the word fae offensive, especially if those using it are using it with the intention of flattery like with “Fair folk.” It’s similar to how The Greeks sometimes called The Furies (Erinyes) is The Kindly Ones, because you want them to act kindly. Calling the faeries by The Beautiful People or Fair Folk was to flatter them into not doing harm. And calling them The Good Neighbors was in the hope that they would behave as such. In works of fiction actual slurs for these sort of beings include “knife ears’ and in the now canceled TV show, Carnival Row, the word Critch, which is derived from “Creature” and sounds a little like a certain B word. Side Note: Count Dracula in Bram Stoker’s novel was supposed to have pointed ears. Imagine how he would react to a slur targeting his anatomy like that. You probably would not survive the night. Now, what you probably should worry about is how virtually identical powerful entities exist in cultures all over Europe and parts of North America. Immortal or near-immortal entities that might pass for human but not quite. My own sources – The book Dark Faeries by Dr. Robert Curran, as well as many works of fantasy literature and folklore. Image by Brian Froud from the book Good Faeries / Bad Faeries.

Venting about a pretentious fan of Irish folklore

I'm going to vent a little here. Yesterday in my Facebook group dedicated to Neil Gaiman's The Sandman we started on a conversation about Irish folklore. It was a fine enough conversation which, almost predictably drifted to Banshees. I mentioned how the original word was the Gaelic "Bean Sidhe" (still pronounced like the modern Banshee) so it's almost like just saying "Woman faery." Somehow this earned a very pretentious and condescending response from someone who was insistent that Sidhe are not faeries. She said "Obviously you're not Irish." and then went on to tell me that Sidhe aren't "Fluttery little things with wings" and how they are "Not Tinkerbell" and that they are "More like Titania and Oberon from Shakespeare's a Midsummer Night's Dream. Two things had me seeing red with this. The first is the "Obviously you're not Irish." It was very condescending and dismissive. I think she had seen my American location on my Facebook account and then decided that I must not know folklore no matter what I said.

The second issue is how wrong she was. For starters, I never once claimed that sidhe are "Tiny fluttering things with wings." and ironically we (others in the group and myself) had discussed Titania and Oberon previously in that very thread. The Fae Court turn up quite a few times in Neil Gaiman's The Sandman. Also it was kind of baffling that she felt the need to imply that Titania and Oberon are not faeries. "My Fairy Lord, this must be done with haste" is literally something Robin Goodfellow (Puck) says in Shakespeare's a Midsummer Night's Dream.

I think she, herself, was confusing the word faery and pixie. For though pixies are faeries not all faeries are pixies. Faery is a blanket term for many entities of Irish folklore including the Sidhe, and even the Dullahan (headless Horsemen). She felt the need to lecture me about how dangerous faeries can be. Ma'am, this is a Sandman group. Neil Gaiman's The Sandman features a homocidal hobgoblin version of The Puck. Most of us are well-aware of how dangerous these beings are in traditional folklore.

What made it even more infuriating was in her effort to "correct" me even though there was nothing to correct, she had somehow earned eight likes and loves on the comment. I pride myself on my knowledge of folklore. I have read Dark Faeries by Dr. Robert Curran, An Encyclopedia of Fairies: Hobgoblins, Brownies, Bogies, and Other Supernatural Creatures by Katherine Briggs, Irish Fairy and Folktales (leatherbound Barnes and Noble edition). And several others but those are the titles that come to mind.

What made this extra baffling is I said nothing that contradicts anything she said here about the Sidhe being dangerous, and closer to Oberon and Titania than Tinkerbell.

I think she, herself, was confusing the word faery and Pixie.

On a final note, I understand the frustration of those that think faeries are all tiny pixies but that's not what I had said at all and. And ironically, Tinkerbell isn't all that nice, herself. In the original story she tried to have Wendy killed out of jealousy.

I’m so tired of the posts talking about fae “stealing” names. Fae don't actually "steal" your name.   They gain power over you by knowing your true name.  Honestly, I'm not sure how this lore got so mixed up recently and suspiciously mostly on Tumblr... Do all of you just read the memes and never the actual folklore?!

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thesecretlifeoftheteenagewitch

1. Keep bird feeders full of food and water in your yard.

2. Pace unwrapped candy outdoors for the fairies to enjoy, especially chocolate.

3. Plant bell-shaped flowers in your garden.

4. Switch to earth friendly soap, shampoo, and cleaning supplies.

5. Eat a vegan diet, or only buy humanely…

DO NOT DO THIS!!!

This is so very, very, VERY wrong, and DANGEROUS to local animals!

A few things wrong with this.

1.  Do NOT leave unwrapped chocolates around.   That's akin to poisoning local stray cats and dogs.  Chocolate is toxic to many animals.  Switch to peanut butter on bread or honey on bread for safe fae offerings.  Even a dish of cow’s milk or light cream is a much better offering. 

What is with this “especially chocolate” crap?   Faery lore long predates the invention of modern, sweet, chocolate.  And Chocolate is extremely toxic to most animals.  This won’t attract cute little faeries. It will KILL your neighbor’s puppy!   

2.   Fae do NOT require or ask you to be vegan.  Fae aren't all cute pixies living off flower nectar and berries.  Ever hear of dullahan, Goblins, unseelie, redcaps or Der Erlkönig?   There are plenty of carnivorous and predatory fae.  Even the more benign fae aren't "Vegan."  Vegan is a pretty new concept. Traditionally fae love things like cheeses, honey, butter, milk, and creams because they don't have means of creating them.  

Fae lore is much older than the twentieth century invention of veganism, kids!  Don't be disrespectful to a very real part of Gaelic culture by imposing a modern concept like Veganism with processed and synthetic substitutes for dairy and honey (things all faeries are supposed to love).  Vegetarianism is fine but Veganism has nothing to do with actual faery lore.

3.  "Bell shaped" flowers is dangerously vague.   Monkshood AKA Wolfsbane (which is highly poisonous) is "Bell shaped."  Even lilies are highly toxic to animals like cats.

This is irresponsible and shameless and the OP may have talked several people into poisoning local wildlife while ironically preaching veganism.  

So I just found out there is a breed of snail called the  scaly-foot snail (which some people online are calling the "Volcano Snail.")  Anyway, it turns out this snail's shell is made of iron sulfide.  That's right.   His shell is iron.   That means there is a snail out there, whose shell can kill a faerie.  

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What meme or anime started the bullshit idea that fae “steal” your name?  I see it on nearly all faery related memes now.  That’s not in any actual lore.It was fae wanting to KNOW your true name because knowing a thing’s true name gives you power over it.  You see it in things like the fairy tale Rumpelstiltskin.  Seriously, what started this revisionist bullshit?

I think it got muddled with other mythology and stories, like how in Spirited Away stealing (part of) a person’s name gives you control/ownership over them and takes part of their memories and powers away. There is a lot of mythology about names and in the age of information technology a lot of stuff gets mixed in with other stories and tales.

I was afraid this was the result of Spirited Away.  But that’s Japanese lore, not European faery lore.  It’s like everyone watched Spirited away and thought “Oh, so that’s how fairies work!” Even though it was not a faery who stole the river-God / Dragon’s name.

 Because I love fairy lore, REAL faery lore.  And I’m starting to get genuinely annoyed at how many memes think faeries steal names.  That’s... not a thing in traditional faery lore. They want to KNOW your true name- the name you most heavily associate with yourself, because it gives them power over you to summon you or banish you, or in some cased compel you.  You don’t “Forget” your name.  That’s ...Not a thing in faery lore.  

For the hundredth time for people who THINK they know faerie lore!

Fae don't "take the name" as in "steal" the name and leave you nameless.  That's something some confused folkloric newbie got from an anime and brutally misunderstood.   Names have power.  A fae KNOWING your true name gives them power over you, the ability to possibly summon you if you're a magick user.   This isn't just true with fae.  It's true with sorcerers.  It's why late nineteenth century and early twentieth century occultists always used names that they wanted to be called instead of their "true" name.  True names aren't necessarily the name you are born to, by the way.  It's the name you most associate with yourself. It was common in fantasy fiction for years.  It's even common in fairy tales.  It's why the Queen knowing Rumpelstiltskin's name enabled her to banish him.   Honestly, it's like some idiots saw Spirited Away and got "confused" and started to think fae simply leave you nameless or some bullshit and as someone who has actually read folklore it's REALLY annoying.

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coffeetwosugars

so you know the rule in fairylands where you cant eat or drink anything or you’ll have to stay there forever? does like.. .eating out/sucking dick count

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actualtrashbag

holy f uck jane

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sinfullucifer

its a serious question

well like, the whole thing is that you cannot have consumed anything belonging to the fey realm. so, yes, probably, you would be stuck there. the same would apply if you just straight up ate a fairy.

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sinfullucifer

new question: would deepthroating count in this case even w/o swallowing

no. temporary doesn’t count, otherwise fairies would all be running about sticking their hands in your mouth to get human servants.

you gotta digest it.

so like??? if you puke afterwards?? maybe it doesn’t count?

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sinfullucifer

huh! i wonder how long is enough time for it to be legit. like whatever goes through your stomach immediately condemns you no matter if you throw it up later?

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generallyhuxurious

Well Persephone only ate 6 seeds so she only stayed 6 months, so maybe if you spat out most of it you’d just be condemned to the occasional day “BRB got go pay the two day toll for fellating a fairy.”

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sinfullucifer

“you wanna come over for the weekend?”

“oh man im so sorry i sucked some fairy dick once and now i have to keep coming back to do it again– its a long story”

“you what now”

i can hardly believe this isn’t already the plot of an Oglaf comic

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sinfullucifer

now that u said it im really surprised as well

what the fuck did i just read

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dominawritesthings

Why ISN’T this an Oglaf comic yet?

I’m so happy that i’m not the only person who thinks of questions like these. I love you all so much.

I’m not convinced by this, actually!

Like, this analysis treats it as a substance problem, i.e. “edible matter from fairyland has properties that, if ingested, physically prevent you from being able to return to the real world.”

But OTOH, a recurring theme throughout fairy stories is that they’re all about…rules and exchanges and agreements with really steep interest rates:

  • “I’ll do you this favor, but if you don’t guess my name you’ll have to give me your first-born child.”
  • “You’re gonna be real good at everything but when you’re 16 you’re gonna prick your finger and die.”
  • “You loaned me $2 for the bus when I looked like a beggar, so now here’s a literal pile of gold and shit.”

Not to mention that in Childe Rowland, one of the central “if you eat food from fairyland you’re stuck there” stories, Rowland manages to retrieve his siblings despite them all presumably having chowed down on fairy food – all it took was beating the Fairy King in a swordfight and threatening to chop his head off.

The takeaway, I think, is that the food thing a matter of implicit exchange: if you get your grub on in fairyland, you’re accepting their hospitality and eating food that they own. This means you owe them, which the fairies can magically leverage to prevent you from leaving.

(You can probably get around this by explicitly agreeing to pay for your meal before you sit down to eat. From what I remember, fairies don’t seem capable of pulling a “Haha, we had an agreement but you’re fucked anyways!” maneuver, so if they agree to let you leave they might even be forced to help you leave.)

Which brings us to the matter at hand: if you blow a fairy you’re doing them a favor! They owe you.

And…they’re a fairy, so if you didn’t agree to terms beforehand they might not repay you in a way that’s ultimately helpful or safe, but it certainly doesn’t seem like they’d be able to, like, pat you on the head and be like “Thanks, you’re really good at this buuuuuuut also you’re stuck here forever now.”

Instead, what seems more likely is…I dunno, showing up to your wedding years later and giving you a beautiful white horse that always comes when called, while loudly praising you as truly deserving it for giving them them simply the best oral they’ve had in years. 

It seems that for a lot of you people this lore is very new and you’re trying to go over it like a lawyer.  But here’s the thing,  they don’t want a human servant.  They want an immortal fae servant.  The food is usually enchanted to enthrall and then transform you.  Humans are too fragile and die too soon.  They want a faery.   Faeries, like vampires, are a bit of a pyramid scheme.  Natural reproduction is rare for faeries.   

They like to transform humans (Particularly children).  This is covered in Goethe’s Der Erlking, and William Butler Yeats’ The Stolen Child.  A child might even leave a physical body behind and seem dead but their soul has been transformed into a fae. 

Eating the fruit of a faery isn’t just a bargain, it’s a catalyst for a spell to begin the transformation into one of them, first by means of an enthrallment spell (the film Jim Henson’s The Labyrinth, and The Goblin Market by Christina Rossetti) and then to transform (True Blood, and Neil Gaiman’s The Sandman).

If you read Neil Gaiman’s The Sandman in the issue A Midsummer Night’s Dream in the Dream Country volume (issue 17 of The Sandman, episode 20 in the audio drama adaptation) Titania entices Shakespeare’s young son with faery fruit.   That same son “Dies” at age eleven but in later volumes of The Sandman Titania is seen with a faery servant that looks like an unaged version of Shakespeare’s “deceased” son.

It’s a bit like consuming vampire blood.  Fairy food (especially fairy fruit) isn’t just a means to a bargain that you stay and serve them.  It begins a transformation to make you into a faerie too.  You’ll never be mortal again but faerie culture is a slave culture, you probably now belong to the faerie that tricked you into eating it.

It’s not just about if you paid for the meal or not.  The food they give you is of the realm of Faerie and is naturally enchanted (especially the fruit).  Similar to the pomegranate in the underworld that Persephone ate in Greek mythology. Once you partake of it, you are destined to become one of them.     

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Reblogged

I have a question as someone who is studying mythology about the Fae with a hope of writing them into my own books. Your interpretation of them as malevolent has a lot of basis in mythology as is, but do you think it would be acceptable within the real world mythology to paint many Fae as protective or otherwise helpful? house spirits of various cultures are often shown as helpful if just as transactional so I was wondering if you think it could be just as true to myth to have helpful fair folk?

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Of course! And I don’t think that my Fae Folk are always malevolent. (As the Piskie says in American Gods, they are like the wind; they blow both ways.)

Katherine Briggs’ books, such as her Dictionary of Fairies, seem to be out of print these days, but are essential reading.

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I hope this isn’t intruding. It’s just that I recognized the name. I have Katharine Briggs’ Encyclopedia of Fairies, Hobgoblins bogies and other supernatural creatures! :-)  It’s a very old copy.  A used library copy.  I forgot where I bought it.  It’s a very useful book, from 1976.  You can probably find it used on ebay or Amazon. It’s been reprinted a few times, I think, since the one I saw on Amazon looks nothing like mine.

Fae can be good or evil.  Like humans.   But if you’re interested in the more malevolent ones, Dark Fairies by Dr. Robert Curran is still in print.   And if you like faery art I highly recommend Good faeries / Bad faeries by Brian Froud.  Gorgeous artwork in there from the conceptual artist from Jim Henson’s Labyrinth.  I believe that one is also still in print. 

Thoughts on faeries and Iron

Thoughts on faeries.  I recently found out human beings can be allergic to iron.   They can absorb it in ordinary foods but supplements like iron tablets can be dangerous for them.   The fact that they can take it through ordinary means (i.e. iron rich foods) but other means would cause an allergic reaction has solved a mystery for me as to how Red Caps (blood thirsty faeries) and other fae don't die horribly or get hurt just from exposure to human blood or high iron foods like spinach, Cream of Wheat, and beef.

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- Good Faeries/Bad Faeries - Brian Froud

The book Fairy Tales by Iona and Peter Opie suggests that Rumpelstiltskin’s name is the way it is because faeries can easily be summoned or even banished by those that know their names so in faery culture it’s always best for the faery to have a name that does not exist (at least commonly) in the human world.  

Also there are many kinds of faeries, some human sized, some not.  Some with wings, some without.   Some that can pass for human, some that can’t (without a glamour spell).

The term fairy comes from Fair Folk and it’s partly to suck up because there was a time faery trickery and faery power was feared.

Even the Banshee is actually a type of faery, not a ghost (Though some people believe some humans can and do become faeries after death).  The original Gaelic is Baen Sidhe which just translates into female faery.  

Also faeries hate being misidentified as the wrong type of faery or spirit.  In Jim Butcher’s The Dresden Files novels there’s a scene where Toot gets very angry at a Russian man for mistaking him as a Domovoi (A household Spirit) when he is, in fact, a pixie.

By the way, I love Brian Froud too.  He and the recently deceased Bernie Wrightson are my two favorite illustrators.   Harry Clarke comes after for his Faust illustrations.

Also doesn’t Brian’s bad faery look somewhat familiar?   You know which one.

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